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Post by sb on Mar 8, 2011 20:43:21 GMT -5
I've recently read a number of solemnly worded articles about women and why they hesitate to get married and why they value their independence and why they value their time alone. One of the things in some of these articles (mostly written by men) that struck me was the value women put on friendship and time with other women.
And I started thinking about how important, how completely critical it is to me, and how I deal with it in what I write. I'm going to be the first to say that I haven't to the extent I would like to. I don't know why. Is it because it's not dramatic? Does it get in the way of the male/female tension?
I know several writers in this forum who have done it successfully. How do you do it?
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dinuriel
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Torturing characters? Me? Nooo...
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Post by dinuriel on Mar 8, 2011 21:09:17 GMT -5
You know, it's funny that you post this, because I was just thinking about writing friendships earlier today.
I haven't really touched on friendships much in my writing either, or at least not the full development of them--more like "Oh, X and Y probably spend time together because they live in the same area and they're from the same socioeconomic background and whatnot, therefore if X needs a friend to talk to in this scene, how about Y?". It all seems to be sudden and convenience-based with little background, as opposed to the romantic and familial relationships in my stories, which are more drawn out.
I think what it might be is just my personal take on friendships in general? I've had my fair share of problems with my family and my fair share of problems with the guys I get involved with, but most of my friendships have either been very stable and continue to this day or ended with some solid closure. I typically tend to write about pretty messed-up stuff, and maybe friendship is the one thing I don't really want to mess up.
(Granted... it might be worth noting that my social group is pretty much 50/50 in terms of gender? Maybe even a little heavy on the male side? Some of my female friends seem to have some very catty, bitchy, competitive frienemy-type relationships, which might make for a good read and a general pain in the ass in real life, but I don't want to deal with that sort of shit, so I don't seek it out.)
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Post by jennifer on Mar 8, 2011 21:18:28 GMT -5
I think I was thinking about this subconsciously the other day. I was going through some plots/scenarios and realized that I haven't written about one female friendship in my story. It's all male/female. I noticed too that my female characters don't have any other female friends either. Everything I focus on in my story is male/female. Even the kids. That's weird isn't it? Then I started to think that this was a reflection on my life a bit and I thought gee how sad. lol But I guess we write what we know or read, yeah? I'm not sure but maybe it's not really important to me to show this in my story. All the relationships have to blend into the story somehow and until now I guess that my female characters haven't needed that. Emphasis on 'until now' because I recently had some ideas for a few scenes where certain female characters will need each other for support.
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Post by sb on Mar 8, 2011 21:35:53 GMT -5
I don't think it's weird, I think it's kind of the way we write. Whether that's a reflection on the female frenemies or the tension we try to find in what we write, and that's male/female, it just does not give room for it, I don't know.
I don't know how to write about it either. It isn't a full and complete picture if it isn't there though. I'm not personally happy with what I've done because it is not there.
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Post by laura on Mar 9, 2011 22:25:06 GMT -5
I don't think it gets in the way of male/female tension. In fact, in a lot of my stories, the female/female relationships only add to the male/female romantic pairings. Think like Jodie/Drew/Amelia - or Amelia/Corbin/Leila. I just worried for a minute then that ALL of my female friendships have had a man thrown in the middle like that, lol! But no, I think I've written about just women before, and having storylines that had nothing to do with a man. Like Lucy/Summer, or April/Summer/Vicky, or Piper/Carly/Jodie. So I guess I write about friendships quite often. Though, as my personal life would go, it's been my female friendships that have caused me the most turmoil in my life, lol! Maybe that's why I write about them? I do find a lot of interesting dynamics to write about between women though. I think almost all of my stories feature at least one main or subplot that revolves around a female friendship. I'm writing a whole novel right now about Jodie and Amelia
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dinuriel
Full Member
Torturing characters? Me? Nooo...
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Post by dinuriel on Mar 9, 2011 23:39:29 GMT -5
Heheh... Laura, we're opposites Even though I don't usually write it, I do like reading about friendship when it's written well--especially if it's a weird sort of friendship And love triangles... well, I think it takes a certain skill to write love triangles. I find generally, my pairings tend to be pretty obvious. Sometimes there's an alternative looming about, but it's never hard to figure out just who is the third wheel. This doesn't bother me because for the most part, I'm more of a genre writer and the romance is never my main plot, but if a writer can produce an agonizing love triangle with two equally valid love interests and even some friendships involved within the triangle, they have my instant respect. Although, sometimes love triangles do start to bother me if they get dragged out for too long. Indecisive, much? (Funny that as I'm typing this up, I'm working on a post involving the only love triangle in one of my online stories, which is already proving to be painfully one-sided )
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Post by laura on Mar 10, 2011 0:17:12 GMT -5
You know, I cringe at the term "love triangle" lol! Even though a lot of my storylines quite obviously involve them. As a term, it just feels so contrived. When the reality of a love triangle, when reflected in its truest capacity, is so much more complex than that. It's not just - girl likes two boys, who is she gonna choose? I would be bored by that. And I hope my "love triangles" (or quadrangles, sometimes pentagons? lol!) come across as more complex than that. But anyway, yes, I am a writer of love triangles. Given the kinds of stories I write (women's fiction/literary/drama), the whole point is the exploration of different kinds of relationships. I had a love-heptagon going on for a minute at one point. Let's write this out: Berjes/Jodie/Drew/Amelia/Corbin/Leila/Matt, lol! Whoa boy, that was a doozy!
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lepifera
Junior Member
"....."
Posts: 93
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Post by lepifera on Mar 10, 2011 5:53:14 GMT -5
* I had a love-heptagon going on for a minute at one point. Let's write this out: Berjes/Jodie/Drew/Amelia/Corbin/Leila/Matt, lol! Whoa boy, that was a doozy! The thing with ACR.... Now when a non-romance sim falls in love with someone in my hood, I try to put other potential romantic interests with less chemistry in the friends only zone. ** I am writing a story which kind of touches on the relationship between an aunt and her niece, which isn't quite about female friendship per se. Personally, I fall a bit short at developing female friendships, because somehow I have a big screw loose in my head which made me blind to social niceties, which are of uttermost importance to many women. *** Hey, I have two starts instead of one! Finally, at last, I am a "junior member".
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Post by laura on Mar 10, 2011 8:04:48 GMT -5
LOL, those *were* all high chemistry! The lowest pairing of the bunch was Jodie and Drew, with a 133 point 3-bolt, lol! Everyone else was higher than that. I leave them mostly wide open though, until the point I decide (= the characters tell me) there's no romantic chemistry between them anymore, and then I'll put them in friends only. In my game, Amelia and Corbin are set to friends only, because in my head, they tell me the thought of getting back in bed together gives them the skeevies, lol! But my point is, I think, that in the end, it's not really about who's going to end up with who (whom?). I mean, it is, on the most basic level. But if you're only reading/writing a story on the most basic level, then there will be a lot missed. Because even if a pairing isn't meant to work out together, or wasn't ever romantic at all, that doesn't mean there isn't a great story to be told from it.
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Post by laura on Mar 10, 2011 8:11:39 GMT -5
Back to Beth though! It just came to mind that you guys DO give Rayne some wonderful female/female storylines, and they're some of my favorite relationships in your story too! With Randi, and with her little sister, and her mom. Those are wonderful and complex, for better and for worse, and very realistic female relationships!
So it is something you're already doing.
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dinuriel
Full Member
Torturing characters? Me? Nooo...
Posts: 374
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Post by dinuriel on Mar 10, 2011 11:59:02 GMT -5
Agreed. I don't think there's a shortage of female friendship in Sessions and related works. Even though we don't see Randi much, I love the relationship she and Rayne have
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Post by sb on Mar 10, 2011 14:19:17 GMT -5
Laura and Van, thank you. Those are some of my absolute favorite relationships in Sessions and I'd love to find a way to focus on them more. When I get stuck, bringing in someone close to Rayne seems to open up the locked romance drama or whatever other kind of drama is going on since it's not always romantic. I used to bring Camilla in to serve the same purpose, although she's a horrible example of female friendship LOL!
lepifera, I don't use ACR so I don't worry about that. Once in a while I forget to turn off jealousy and have problems though. An aunt and her niece could be friends. Or uneasy allies. And congrats on becoming a junior member!!!
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Post by muzegoddess on Mar 11, 2011 0:15:29 GMT -5
Such a timely topic as I am contemplating that factor in my own life. As for how it finds its way into my writing, I really don't know how I do it. I suppose it generally comes about when my female characters need some sort of support or emotional outlet in their lives. Right now I'm writing female friendshps from opposite ends of the spectrum; one positive and healthy and the other is a complete toxic mess. Like most people I tend to write what I know and those polar opposites have been the theme in my life.
I will agree with Laura and say that I think female friendships add to male/female tension. Friends can come to the rescue if a love relationship is bad or come between one if its good. It adds a level or balance to red hot passionate love affairs (no one's loins can be on fire all the time). A female friend adds the reality check to a romantic situation and I've used them for that purpose.
Drawing on the female friendships in my story has also added to my backstory and a good dialogue between friends can fill in blanks or slip in things from the past where needed. It adds an outside point of view to a main character that enhances their depth as well. Good friends, whether on paper or in RL are alwasy good to have around.
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Post by thelunarfox on Mar 11, 2011 0:33:09 GMT -5
An aunt and her niece could be friends. Or uneasy allies. My niece and I are very good friends, but then I think she's an awesome kid. No matter what I do to her, she just won't leave me alone. Oh plus, there's only 15 years between the two of us. Interesting to hear all your responses. I try not to think about it. Female friendships are definitely packed with tension. They can be the best relationships or the worst relationships. Combative and competitive (but in that horribly passive, subtle way) or beautiful and supportive.
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Post by muzegoddess on Mar 11, 2011 9:05:42 GMT -5
Female friendships are definitely packed with tension. They can be the best relationships or the worst relationships. Combative and competitive (but in that horribly passive, subtle way) or beautiful and supportive. Lunar I couldn't agree more. Female friendships can be just as passionate and intense as a romantic relationship, if not more so in certain ways. Having the same kind of energy either opposing or supporting the other is very powerful. It is challenging for me to write about it because it can be so subtle. Where men generally resort to some sort of physical contest to settle things, women are masters of dirty looks and snide comnents that can really sting. I have just found it somewhat difficult to convey all the feelings that go along with that into words. On the flip side I think when female friends are being supportive it is easier to get the feelings and emotions across. That's where we get physical (i.e. mutual crying, hugs, holding hair back when the other pukes, stuff like that).
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Post by thelunarfox on Mar 11, 2011 10:26:11 GMT -5
Where men generally resort to some sort of physical contest to settle things, women are masters of dirty looks and snide comnents that can really sting. I have just found it somewhat difficult to convey all the feelings that go along with that into words. On the flip side I think when female friends are being supportive it is easier to get the feelings and emotions across. That's where we get physical (i.e. mutual crying, hugs, holding hair back when the other pukes, stuff like that). Mmmhmmm! Exactly. Female friendship is so difficult to write about! You don't want to turn them into a stereotype, but it is so fascinating. I've known girls who made snide comments that left the men around me thinking I was crazy when I'd point it out and go, "Did you hear what she said?" So perhaps it's just easier and in a way more comforting to write about romantic relationships? It's like an extra form of escape.
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Post by rad on Mar 11, 2011 13:44:52 GMT -5
Oooh, great topic... and one I know little about In my real life I just have friends - a mixed group of male/female/gay/straight (I'd love to say /black/Asian but though I do have some black and Asian friends, mostly in other cities, my closest group are all white, and nearly all Northern and upper-working/lower-middle class as well) so I'm not used to 'female friendship' or 'male friendship' for that matter. Whilst there are groups of girls and boys in The Academy in Taken, their friendships operate on a slightly strange level. And I split up my other female friends in the first chapter Come to think of it, the Populouses have no friends outside of their family/conquests either.
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