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Post by Galatea on Apr 23, 2011 5:44:04 GMT -5
This isn't about your activism. I grew up in an activist household. As far as I'm concerned, you go be as activist as you want about anything you like. I'm also not fazed about your being gifted and highly intelligent: I'm both of those as well. And so what? If I don't actually use my gifts, but spend all day beating others over the head with the fact that I'm gifted, my behaviour isn't so intelligent and my gifts don't amount to much, do they?
What I am worried about is that no one can seem to get through to you. I've had to remove you from my list on Twitter, because all your retweets make it impossible for me to see much from anyone else, let alone anything at all from you yourself. When you do tweet, you spam, once again failing to respond or engage with anything tweeted by your friends.
You don't respond to friends when we reply to your posts on either your blog or this forum. You ignore us try to reach out and say, we are worried about you. I don't know what else to do.
What I'm worried about is that I recognise what's coming out of your writing. I recognise the obsessive, warped, unbalanced lack of connection with reality that comes with the excessive anxiety and depression that you've spoken about so often. I used to have the same thing.
Ten to fifteen years ago, I also used to wonder why people didn't appreciate that they were in the presence of greatness when they were around me. I'm seeing the same thing in you.
These are not normal, healthy behaviours, Stacy. Please get help.
The bullshit perpetrated by those in authority is not an excuse not to live your own life, nor to not let the rest of us live ours.
(PS: I originally had this in "forum spam", but I thought it would be more appropriate here, as it's a hidden forum, if I recall correctly.)
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Post by celebkiriedhel on Apr 23, 2011 7:53:43 GMT -5
This is a member-only forum at the moment Galatea. So yeah, unfortunately, one of the reasons why Stacy is mad at us is because this is a member only forum.
Stacy hasn't logged into VSS since the 20th April. I'm hoping it has to do with going away for Easter, but I'm not convinced.
Unfortunately there is nothing that we can do to help Stacy until she is willing to listen. I hope she reads this and hears it.
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Post by Galatea on Apr 23, 2011 20:14:42 GMT -5
What on earth set this whole thing off? Do you know?
And wasn't this always a members-only forum? Didn't she help to create it that way?
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lepifera
Junior Member
"....."
Posts: 93
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Post by lepifera on Apr 23, 2011 20:30:42 GMT -5
Life is full of its many mysteries. Even if I try to give rational, scientific explanation for the unset of depression, I would not do it justice.
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pinkfiend1
Full Member
Missing everyone
Posts: 467
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Post by pinkfiend1 on Apr 23, 2011 22:08:54 GMT -5
No it only went private about a month or two ago, because we all started getting a bit more personable and real lifey with things we posted in here someone suggested it went private and I think everyone agreed. I'm not completly sure that Stacey even responded to the thread. I think the main arguement started because Stacey started creating a lot of deep intellectual topics with ten tons if links to read, which put people off, and if people did respond Stacey would write nice little statements back without reading what had been discussed, then Stacey asked why people weren't having discussions and reading her posts and a heated discussion started, Stacey became political and said she was quitting the net so that she couldn't be found and criticised for her political beliefs, which must have been around the whole Egypt/Libya thing in the news at the beginning of March, then at the end of March she returned kind of disapeared again and returned mid April against facism and for communism and it convinced Drew to quit, but she showing littel signs of returning to the old Stacey who doesn't read people's posts because she's scared they may be criticisng her or something.
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Post by celebkiriedhel on Apr 24, 2011 4:49:10 GMT -5
Galatea, similiar to what Pinkfiend said. I set this forum to members-only after I came back from visiting my mother on March 5. At that time - this thread: Positive Disintegration was re-activated when Stacy had a dig at people on March 2. There were seriously personal things in that thread that I thought needed to be kept private if only to keep it away from Simsecrets. I posted this thread A quick change Stacy's anger at this forum becoming member-only is demonstrated there, and I also had private conversations with her. Since then, she has come in, gotten cross with people not joining her stand against fascism, apologised, said she was going away, then returned and repeated at fairly regular intervals between then and now. Her last post in Forum spam "Fascism is here" where she again berated people, drove Drew away, with Beth, Qui, and Muzegoddess also leaving. She was here daily, but did not post after that - and stopped coming on 20 April. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to do anything for her and had to tell her that I couldn't because I've been dealing with the death of my mother later in March, and the funeral, will, and re-ordering my life in the aftermath of that. Stacy isn't reading replies and I have my own theories about what that is about, but I don't want to conjecture in public - not even in a members-only forum.
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Post by Galatea on Apr 24, 2011 7:10:27 GMT -5
I understand. Thanks for filling me in.
Is there any way of contacting her other than online? Has she made any friends close enough around here for them to be able to talk to her on the phone or something? I'm not referring to me. I'm just wondering if she has a decent support network that doesn't involve the internet.
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Post by rad on Apr 24, 2011 11:23:07 GMT -5
I don't think she does... and she pretty much stopped talking to me when I suggested she needed more people in her real life and needed to spend less time online.
*Sigh*
I do care about Stacy, I think most of us do, but as she won't respond to any PMs, emails or replies any of us have sent her, I don't see there's much more we can do to help.
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Post by Galatea on Apr 24, 2011 21:08:53 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat, she's not talking to me either. I think I called her out a few too many times on twitter and LJ, regarding her behaviour and some of the things she was saying.
I don't regret saying any of those things. The fact is, she needs a right kick up the backside, not mollycoddling. I know quite well what's happening to her and why she's acting this way, because I went through it. The people who comforted me the most helped me the least. The ones who helped me most were the ones who refused, under any circumstances, to show any sympathy for me or to let me have any emotional gratification from them or emotional control over them. I was left on my own, and I had to work my own way through it, in the end. It took several years (yes, years), but now I'm here, and I'm sane - thank plumbob!
Stacy needs the same thing. She needs less, "we understand and love you", and more, "you're behaving like an arsehole and hurting the people around you. Grow up." She may not want it, but it's what she needs. And for every link to some obscure research article she posts, someone else should reply with a link to a different cookie recipe. If she chucks a tantrum like a two-year-old (which is exactly what she did, because no one was playing with her toys, her way), then let her.
She's got to stop thinking she can look for emotional support and understanding online, because what she actually needs is a real-time, real-life psychological counsellor, along with a real-time, real-life support network of people. We can help out with the first bit by collecting cookie recipes and having them ready, but the second part is up to her. We can't help her with that. All we can do is hope and pray that she finds her way there.
We are not responsible for her emotions. She is. We can be friends with her when she's ready to grow up and be friends with us. Until then, we can wait, if we want to, or leave. That's the risk she takes, and the risk we take, and that's just life.
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Post by bex on Apr 24, 2011 22:24:52 GMT -5
It is a shame that her actions have prompted so many posters to leave. Drew, SB, Muze, Qui...all valued members of the forum. Very sorry to see them go.
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Post by Galatea on Apr 25, 2011 6:46:14 GMT -5
Yes, it's a shame. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do except wish them the best. I know that's not a very comforting reply, but there's not a lot else one can say.
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Post by heredoncove on Apr 25, 2011 22:16:20 GMT -5
I honestly didn't realize all this was going down and I know I'm not super involved on the forum but I noticed that it started to empty around the time Stacy's twitter stream fell apart.
I feel bad for her and I hope she gets herself together because it's sad to go to so many communities and see people ripping her to shreds.
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Post by Galatea on Apr 26, 2011 6:55:23 GMT -5
I agree, and I feel bed for her as well. I'm certainly not intending to "rip her to shreds", and I hope that isn't what's coming across here.
Shit, I've been through it. I know a little of what it's like to be where she is. It's an awful place to be in.
I'm really concerned for her. I hope she gets help.
And I hope she comes back to us.
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Post by Stacy on May 1, 2011 1:30:29 GMT -5
I went to Kiri's profile to write her a PM and saw this thread in her most recent threads. Haven't read any of the posts in it. Not up to it right now. Oh - read Galatea's last post. Even if it made me terrified to read your first post, lol. Good to see that the forum is still active, that people are still coming and posting. As for what's going on with me - I assume you mean it in relation to how I don't post much very more and how I've sort of dropped out socially. I did not handle things well myself, and I admit that. So there's definitely fault on my side, and I'll take responsibility for that. But it sort of felt like this place had become like LJ. Like there were unwritten rules that I had violated without knowing and that everyone hated me. Which I know that not everyone did. Again, this is part of where I went wrong - assuming that everyone was against me. However, it really did not help when I came to the board one day and checked my recent posts, without logging in. When I saw that some of them were missing, my stomach dropped. I logged in and saw that the IRL forum had been hidden. Blood rushed to my face and I breathed faster and it felt pretty much exactly like a hate secret used to feel. I understand the reasons for it and I'm not mad at any individual for that, but it is a violation of certain deeply held ethical values of mine. No doubt that is why I became even more defensive and posted some things that I shouldn't have posted as opposed to leaving like I said I would. I don't need help. And that does hurt - do remember the secret claiming that I needed help because I liked Valley so much. I have noticed that other people think I need psychological help because I do not fit their social norms. But I feel fine myself. I'm doing just fine at work, my marriage is good, I'm functional, etc. I am not as bad as I was when it all went down - I'm sleeping just fine now, and I am eating - although I'm still eating less and still losing weight, but I am eating healthy amounts - and I am a bit less terrified. That last part - I really don't feel you can judge me on that unless you live in the US. Just like people who aren't Libyan shouldn't judge how the Libyans react to their own situation, people who aren't American shouldn't judge how I react to the situation here. I seem to have gotten completely over secrets, so that's good - I could tell from my stats page on both WordPress and LJ that I have been in them a few times recently, but I didn't care at all. Way I look at it, it's just pageviews for the fiction and on the LJ, hopefully some people read it and learn some things about Libya. Hmm - is this thread the reason for the uptick in references from my profile here, or was VSS in a secret the other week like I originally thought? Don't answer that question. I've found a belief in myself. I no longer think I am the worst person in the world just because I pissed off a stranger on the internet. Really - okay, there were tensions under the surface already, before the blow up. I never have felt like I belonged here, really, and one part of that was the lack of response to my threads on things like aesthetic perception and positive disintegration. And see, the positive disintegration is important. Because that's what is happening. Dabrowski's Theory and Existential Depression in Gifted Children and AdultsI've also started reading two Erich Fromm books, and expect many insights from his theories. They are also about primary integration versus becoming more of an individual (although he doesn't use the term primary integration) and how social conditions that reward primary integration and inhibit individuation (such as capitalism, which runs on conformity and submission) lead to fascism. Wait - I think he does use the term "primary ties". Sigh - no doubt I will google Fromm and Dabrowski and see that someone else already made that connection. I never get to have original thoughts. You see - everything is connected. I cannot compartmentalize anything. Telling me that I am only able to post about certain things here is ensuring that I will not post here at all. I did not set out to create another Boolprop. It surely does not help that my social anxiety has come back in full force. It was getting better, but then getting hate from people I thought were friends put a stop to that and sent it all the way back to complete avoidance. I will fully participate again. When that happens - please do just ask me what I mean if you don't understand something or feel offended before going off and cursing at me and getting enraged. And I promise to return the favor. I am not good at communicating with others. And I am aware that the misinterpretation goes both ways, that because of my social anxiety there are things that I don't see and other things that I see while quickly scrolling by and that I end up making erroneous assumptions based on a sentence fragment. I will work to improve that. So I guess what's going on with me, where VSS and my Sims friends are concerned - I felt trapped and censored and restricted and like people wanted me to conform. And I've never been able to handle that. I'd rather alienate friends than not be me. And really - are people who would demand that I cut off bits of myself my friends at all? Like Dr. Seuss said - "Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." And of course that goes both ways, and I am completely okay with people deciding to end their relationship with me because they feel I am encroaching on their personal freedom or if they feel that I am asking them to be something they are not. I do still love you all. And I hope you're all doing well. Thank you for thinking about me and for being concerned.
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lepifera
Junior Member
"....."
Posts: 93
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Post by lepifera on May 1, 2011 8:39:58 GMT -5
Stacy,
Glad to hear that you are doing well. I was becoming worried after reading through this thread before you responded.
Communication between any two human beings is never easy, at least in my own experiences of relating to others.
As I have said, I trust you to have good intentions behind informing others about important issues. Yet I do feel that you as a writer could take greater care in wording and presenting your views. Your words, if misconstrued to the extremes by someone who does not have the knowledge of where you are coming from, could easily become justifications for violence, in the name of a "better" society.
So much so, I feel that I just have to keep the discussion balanced by arguing the opposite at times.
By the way, my attitude towards cookies hasn't changed. I like cookies, and many other little things life can offer us.
Later,
Lepifera
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Post by Stacy on May 1, 2011 21:15:13 GMT -5
I've been reading some of the threads to get caught up, and yeah...
I don't belong here.
It's both a Seth and a Stacy song, but then - I don't know if there was ever a difference between the two.
everyone has been in my face telling me that I'm a disgrace showing me things that I must face telling me that they need their space
I can't love you anymore I'm scared of the sound of it and woman, I just wanted more
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lepifera
Junior Member
"....."
Posts: 93
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Post by lepifera on May 1, 2011 23:36:40 GMT -5
Stacy,
Why do you feel that you need to "belong" to a specific internet forum? Internet forum serve the functional purpose of allowing people to share and discuss topics of "mutual" interests. No more. No less. It is not a social club on which any of us can base our identity on, nor could it ever be the ideal community and support network that you seem to be seeking. Aren't you perhaps looking for the things you need in the wrong places?
What does it take for you to feel you "belong" then? When you are surrounded by people who are like you, who agrees with everything you say, who never questions you?
If then, just how is your attitude different from any privileged wealthy who chooses to to live in a predominantly white neighborhood, and attend socially exclusive clubs?
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Post by Stacy on May 2, 2011 19:51:07 GMT -5
Lepifera - finally read your last email. All of it. Are you proud? I was in the midst of replying and realized that the non-personal bits could work as a reply here. I know a lot of it goes both ways, and that people felt judged and censored the same way that I did. Note added as I went on - if anyone who reads this is in contact with any of the people who left, please feel free to invite them to come read this and see if it helps them feel better or at least not hate me as much.I failed at communicating what I felt and what I meant. Like bits and pieces I've picked up from people - I never wanted the focus of the forum to change. I never expected people to devote as much energy and time as I do to certain subjects. And I never meant to make people feel guilty. To be completely honest - I have no idea why people reacted the way they did. I will work on that - this post is more about figuring stuff out about my personal reaction. Obviously I have more work to do on the whole figuring out the reactions of others. I never meant to hurt anyone - trying to remember....but this is something for another post. This is explaining stuff from my end. One thought I've had recently - I think...I don't mean to sound egotistical here - but I think I never realized that I had the power to make people feel guilty. I never realized that people would get so emotional over my ramblings or take what I said so seriously. I sort of picked up on that in a few discussions with people - that my words had way more impact than I thought they did. I still refuse to think that I am a horrible person. And maybe that's another part - I was just coming off the whole Hoopty thing and so I was on a high tide of saying no to guilt trips and manipulation and control and realizing that I didn't have to wallow around in self-hate and feel like I was damaged goods and could never be redeemed and would always be the worst person on the planet just because I'd made someone upset. And so that's how I interpreted people's reactions. It's very much how I interpreted hiding the IRL board. As saying "You are not acceptable, and your thoughts and feelings are not acceptable." I'm not claiming that it was rational or anything, but that was how I felt. And I still think it's true that I didn't and don't belong. I hear what you said about rigid expectations of friendship, and I can see that in my behavior. It's just - really, this goes much deeper than the social stuff (won't call it politics, because it's not party A versus party B and what talking head A said about talking head B, but about the survival of the species overall and on a particular level, the survival of Americans who aren't in the top 1% financially - for instance, most people I know.) It's in the writing threads too, and the comments on my stuff, and my inability to really comment on other people's stuff. Like I said - Seth is me. And yeah - must be getting to the root of things now because I feel tears coming up. I think that while I was busy not being aware of how much power my words had, other people weren't aware of how much power their words had on me. Man - it was like a funhouse of mirror projections, huh? But really.... It felt like there was this giant gulf between me and other people. I don't know, maybe it is unrealistic and rigid to expect to cross that gulf. Maybe this is what the existential depression article meant by the whole "we are utterly alone" thing. Alone alone alone, eh? But you guys seemed closer together than I was to anyone. I couldn't leave comments on your stories. You all left detailed long comments on each other's stories and you really seemed to dig what each other's stories were about and what everyone was trying to do with their work. But I couldn't see it, couldn't comment, and although I very much appreciated and loved my comments and I am very very extremely grateful for them - I didn't see the same thing, the same "getting" of the story and what I was doing, the same easy camaraderie. I would read the writing threads, and again - people seemed to get what other people were talking about, seemed to play off each other, seemed to find points of connection. I was just kind of on the outside going "Whaaa?" And I picked up on all sorts of things in posts that were probably not at all intentional, but I interpreted them as insults and slights directed at me. Stuff about not taking things too seriously, about not really caring about or putting effort into Sims/online writing because hey, it's "just" Sims, "just" stuff published online for free, etc. And in general writing threads, everyone seemed to get and understand everyone else's posts, but I couldn't find any common ground, any way to really understand what you guys were talking about. And it was evident that a lot of people had the same reactions to my posts, as when I would try to share my thoughts and feelings it would sometimes sink into oblivion or Kiri would have to come in and do some translating, like in the writing for readers thread. And then of course all the talk about publishing and everything, right as I was solidifying my position in the opposite direction. Which - again, I didn't mean to make anyone feel guilty or judge anyone, but I - well, I express everything strongly and boldly. Always have, always will. And so I can see how some of my statements on that subject may have come across as more judge-y than I meant them. But then I bet you guys didn't know how much I felt like you were judging me, either. Everything here goes both ways, I think. So it wasn't like I had a moral problem with all the talk about publishing - it was just that it came at a time when I was working out my free creativity, screw the capitalist framing of art as commercial product philosophy and so it was another widening of the gulf, another thing setting me off alone in my own little corner. So I guess I was primed to interpret the reaction to my posts as rejecting, as judging, as being like LJ. God - this all goes back to that, doesn't it? Those fucking stupid secrets have completely tainted my experience in the Sims community and caused me considerable psychological damage and affected all my relationships online and basically destroyed any chance I have at friendship or communication with people on the internet. So yeah - seeing tweets from you guys treating the secrets like a casual thing really did not help things. It was like...okay, I have been sexually abused so I am allowed to make the comparison based on my own experiences if I want - it was like seeing my friends be nice and friendly to my abuser and taking his side against me. Because the secrets were fucking traumatic and I don't know if I'll ever heal from them. There. There we go. That's the truth right there, isn't it? That when you guys got all mad at me, I flashed back to the secrets and started fighting that battle over again and didn't see you guys. No - what I saw was anonymous haters. I totally lost sight of you as my friends and projected my inner demons on to you. www.pete-walker.com/flashbackManagement.htmwww.ouradopt.com/node/214Hey - maybe if we had decent health care in the US I might could go get some help. But oh wait - we don't. Haha, see - I said everything was connected!!! Unhid the forum so people who deleted their accounts could see this post, because I made this damn forum anyway. Crying with happiness and relief. This is right. This is good. This is in line with my ethics. It's like I've come out of a dark cramped coffin that I'd been stuck in for months. Hello, sunlight, how are you? *dances with joy at the release of the IRL forum from its prison*
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lepifera
Junior Member
"....."
Posts: 93
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Post by lepifera on May 2, 2011 21:16:15 GMT -5
Stacy,
I believe that each individual has a unique way of seeing and experiencing the world. There are people who take comfort in knowing who are they, as reflected through the eyes of people they have known all their life. For the sense of social comfort, they let their own personal truth be subjugated to social expectations.
Many writers and artists would rather go against social expectations, so that they could share with others what are truly in their hearts, without disguise, without sugar-coating, raw, and loud. Many probably also have experienced "the coming of age" kind of pain, in throwing off the social blanket that uses to protect one against the knowledge that essentially, each of us is alone, that others will never see the world in the exact same ways one does. Even among writers and artists, there will not be agreement on what a work of art is, or is not.
Art is subjective, based on the unique, individual experiences of each person. To breach the gap, to really connect with another writer or artist's work, one needs to suspend one's own beliefs, one's own values, at least temporarily, and really exercise one's imagination in reaching out, to see the world from another person's point of view. That is the only way connection could be made. Even then, the connection would not be perfect, for there are still fundamental differences among us that lead us to interpret the same situation differently.
I think you still care too much of how others perceive you because you still feel unsure of who you are. People say all sorts of things all the time, some true, some way off the marks. Once one gains the true bearing of where one wants to go in life, it would be easier to not take what other people say too personally, or as direct challenges to one's personal identity and values.
Kiri took the IRL thread to protect everyone's privacy. Angry words were spoken, and they might give people unfamiliar with the situation the wrong impression about this forum. I do thinks that one needs to be more careful in presenting ideas and beliefs, and in revealing personal information over the internet, too.
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Post by Stacy on May 2, 2011 21:31:29 GMT -5
Okay - making a new post to see if I can gain some insight into the reactions of others while I'm on a roll here.
I'm trying to remember...
I know for an absolute fact that I did not set out to hurt anyone, that the anger caught me totally off guard.
And it's still....
I can't understand it! I'm sitting here, and I'm thinking, and I'm trying to understand, and....
One thing that I do get - the effect of the social anxiety. Which, note - I have read two whole emails today!
But I do totally get how the social anxiety affects things. I get that part, at least - how it leads to people not being heard, to misinterpretation, to me not responding to people, to me writing posts directed at the shadows of old traumas instead.
Please, you guys - please know that the social anxiety is not personal. It's not me ignoring you. It's me having a serious anxiety problem that has nothing to do with you.
And from now on, I will take responsibility for that and be aware of it. And before I post, I will think - "Will I be able to read the responses to this post?" And if the answer is no, I simply won't post.
That rule starts AFTER this thread, by the way. I will do my best to read the posts in this thread as I am able, but I'm not going to promise an instant miracle cure.
Not gonna budge on the IRL forum. This counts as asking me to cut off a part of myself, and as part of getting better I have the right to declare boundaries and a right to my feelings. I will move certain threads to a forum that I have already approved of as being members-only for reasons that fit into my ethical system, as a compromise, but IRL is free, damn it. You cannot imagine how much better I feel now, with it free and open like it should be. It's...it seriously is like the sun has come out, like a burden has been lifted, like I've reattached a part of myself that was missing.
And yes, I'm already having visions of you guys pointing and laughing and whispering about how I suck and how I'm crazy and how I need to stop leaning on the tired old secrets excuse. Trying to control it.
One good thing - I think I can deal with this. Even if no one comes back, even if the forum dies off, even if I've lost all of you as friends - I can deal. I'm not a horrible person. I'm not. All humans make mistakes. All humans make big mistakes. All humans sometimes lose a lot of things from those mistakes.
The important thing is that I learn something from it, and I'm doing that right now.
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