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Post by Stacy on Sept 19, 2009 14:52:07 GMT -5
Found this on another forum and thought it might provide some interesting discussion.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH WEATHER
Yes, you can work weather into the scene. But I don't care that it was sixty-five degrees on a spring morning, and if you make that your first sentence you're going to remain unpublished.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH CHARACTER DESCRIPTION
Your protag may be named Bob McTestes, and he was born in Sunnydale, Ohio in 1967, but you need to work that into the body of the story and not make it the first sentence. Better yet, don't work it in anywhere.
DO NOT START A STORY BY ADDRESSING THE READER
"You'll never believe what happened on July 2, 1943." You're right. I won't believe it, because I just stopped reading.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH PREMONITION
"Phil Assmaster didn't know he was going to die that day." But Joe Konrath knows you're not going to win this contest.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH THE PROTAG WAKING UP
Frankly, it shocked me how many stories began like this. More so than any other way I'm warning against. Opening your eyes because you had a bad dream or heard a strange noise is a quick way to put the reader to sleep.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH CLICHES
Once upon a time. A long time ago. This is a true story. Ugh. Next time, save me the trouble and put the story in your own recycle bin.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH SETTING DESCRIPTION
"Moronville, Ohio was a town of 8371 people originally founded in 1872 by Quakers." Hopefully, one of those Quakers has a gun and will shoot me.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH TELLING
"Josh felt terrible." Really? How am I supposed to picture that? Maybe I picture Josh's stomach aching, his head throbbing, and the hole where his heart is supposed to be. If I'm picturing that, perhaps you should have as well and written it that way.
DO NOT START A STORY WITH ANY DESCRIPTION
I don't care if you're describing a person, place, thing, era, or whatever. I want to read about conflict, not helper words.
DO NOT USE HELPER WORDS
Force yourself to pare away every adverb, and half your adjectives. Also kill any speaker attribution other than "said" and "asked."
DO NOT START A STORY WITH A PROLOGUE
Your short story doesn't need a prologue. Your novel probably doesn't either.
DO NOT USE EXCLAMATION POINTS!
Especially a bunch of them!!!!!!!
DO NOT USE THE SAME FARUQING WORD TWICE IN THE SAME FARUQING PARAGRAPH
Get the faruquing point?
GRAMMER AND SPELING SHOULD BE PREFECT
If you don't care, why should I? Ditto annoying dialect spelling. Y'all get a-ight wit dat sheet, 'kay?
And finally:
DO NOT MAKE YOUR MAIN CHARACTER AN ANIMAL
Ever.
Are there exceptions to these rules? Of course. There are always exceptions. But I didn't see any in the 2000+ stories I had to endure.
Also, for the love of all that is good, use 12 point Arial, Courier, or Times New Roman, double space the text, one inch margins, and indent each paragraph but don't add extra spaces in between them. One staple, in the upper left hand corner
Borrowed from Wendy Thomas another full time freelance writer.
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Post by Stacy on Sept 19, 2009 14:55:07 GMT -5
Valley has a prologue and starts with description and with Lilith waking up.
It is longer than a short story really though. And the prologue is important, and waking vs sleeping and states of consciousness are also important.
Plus I picked up Let The Right One In last night and it's an amazing book (the movie certainly did it justice) and it starts with a short prologue that's a description of the setting.
So I'm trying to not let it get to me too much.
I find it interesting that it takes all the stuff that most Sims 2 writers tell each other to do and says that it's wrong.
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Post by raquelaroden on Sept 19, 2009 15:40:43 GMT -5
Ack! My story has a character waking up out of a bad dream (originally, the dream was described, but it was so graphic that I was afraid to put it up first thing...plus, I wasn't sure how to capture pictures of such scenes in TS3). My stories are supposed to be a series of short stories. But maybe my first one is turning into a novel? I don't know (shhh...keep it a secret...I haven't got it all mapped out just yet...I know, it scares me too). Sim stories are a bit different--after all, the images are often important. I don't know many short stories that rely on images that much. We don't have to describe scenes as much, because it gets a bit redundant. It makes the reader wonder why we even use the pictures if we're going to tell them everything anyway. I found an interesting site that gives (what I think are) some good tips (especially the Writing Mistakes section), and I went through my upcoming chapter draft and tried to apply some of them. It's called Fiction Writers' Mentor .  |
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Post by girlyesterday on Sept 19, 2009 18:55:38 GMT -5
My rule of thumb is to take these sorts of articles with a grain of salt, sure there are guidelines for everything but guidelines don't dictate whether something is right or wrong.
We also have to take into consideration that said author is most likely talking about fiction as opposed to sim stories which are an entirely different ball game, it's a genre on its own and has its own set of guidelines.
A majority of what the author lists as not to do I find quite strange as many published short stories (and by published I mean in a print magazine format and short story collection novels) do use a variety of those. I've had two stories published in the past that have used some of those and frankly, the editor never had issues with my stories and they are not shy in telling you if they do have problems with your story.
Some of those "guidelines" I agree with fiction, but there are others I think are just personal opinions of the author and not some diehard rule.
It's a good reference resource but I wouldn't change my sim stories over it.
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Post by MASchlabach on Sept 20, 2009 3:08:01 GMT -5
DO NOT USE EXCLAMATION POINTS! Especially a bunch of them!!!!!!! DO NOT USE THE SAME FARUQING WORD TWICE IN THE SAME FARUQING PARAGRAPH Get the faruquing point? GRAMMER AND SPELING SHOULD BE PREFECT If you don't care, why should I? Ditto annoying dialect spelling. Y'all get a-ight wit dat sheet, 'kay? Yikes, yikes and yikes! Guilty. But can I place the blame on my characters, as they're the ones that are *supposedly* writing the story?  |
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Post by raquelaroden on Sept 20, 2009 9:20:28 GMT -5
lol MASchlabach! I like that.
girlyesterday: I was thinking the same thing--I've seen authors successfully use most of the things that make the "don't" list. I think that's the real distinction: there's a way to successfully use those things, and a way to botch them, and I'll agree with that.
By the same token, I can look at earlier chapters in my story, and I know that I've done some things badly--but isn't that the point? None of us will get any better at writing if we don't practice, and I never approached this thinking that I was already (magically) a great writer. I have a long way to go. There's little incentive to practice or even to critique our own writing unless we have an audience. Even if the audience never says anything bad about what we write, I think few of us would say that we aren't actively looking for things to make our next updates or projects even better than the last. And that's great!
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Post by Monday Morning on Sept 20, 2009 18:44:17 GMT -5
Well... I can honestly say that I've done some of those things as well! Especially the prologue bit. Now, could RT's prologue really be the first chapter? Probably. But I did it that way on purporse, to put my readers right in the middle of things so as to build on that conflict through the rest of the story. Also, I can't imagine starting a story without any sort of description. You might as well leave the page blank if you're going to go by that rule! Intersting article though. I wonder if the author of this has ever taken into account that there are many, many different writing styles or preferences. Or, if they've ever taken a gander at some books on how to write fiction (of any kind). |
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Post by girlyesterday on Sept 20, 2009 19:33:50 GMT -5
I think prologues have a place in the writing world. I liked that you started with a prologue MondayMorning, that's how you drew me in as a reader and I am inherently fussy when it comes to what I want to read and doubly so for stuff that I have to read online.
Also, I can't imagine starting a story without any sort of description. You might as well leave the page blank if you're going to go by that rule!
That's exactly what my partner said to when I read the 'rules' out to him.
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Catherine
Junior Member
I like to say SQUEE!
Posts: 97 
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Post by Catherine on Sept 21, 2009 11:29:48 GMT -5
No exclamation points! What?!?!?!? I love exclamation points!!!!!
(And parenthetical statements!)
Way too much!!!
These are bad habits that I hope to break one day.
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Post by dbloveshermac on Sept 21, 2009 20:09:12 GMT -5
Tad Williams became one of my favorite authors after I read Tailchaser's Song, and the main character is a cat. Hurray for exceptions!
Add me to the list of those guilty of prologuing.
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Post by Monday Morning on Sept 21, 2009 22:40:40 GMT -5
Prologuers United! High five, DB!
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lissa
New Member
pushing this sound through the underground
Posts: 5
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Post by lissa on Aug 18, 2010 23:39:40 GMT -5
I've been itching to take this apart since I saw it at Fictional Faction. I think a lot of these "rules" can be broken. There are some writers who break every writing rule out there (House of Leaves) and get away with it because they do it well.
My personal opinion:
Describing temperature would be a really boring way to start a story.
I don't agree with this - I like to have some background and description for my characters, just not in the opening sentence.
I kind of hate it when a writer addresses the reader like this.
I don't like stories that give away all the twists at the beginning. Foreshadowing should be subtly hinting at what's going to happen, or even better, trying to trick the reader (like J.K. Rowling does).
This is the one thing that will make me stop reading a story immediately. Shouldn't be done unless something really interesting happens when they wake up, like they've turned into a giant insect ("Metamorphisis").
Unless you're Terry Pratchett or someone else who uses cliches to make fun of them, it's probably better to not do this.
Depends on the story.
Show, don't tell.
Don't really agree with this one - it depends on the story.
Mostly agree with this one, especially about the overuse of adverbs.
I usually find prologues boring, and mostly unnecessary.
I agree with this!!! Unless you're writing in first person from the viewpoint of an excitable preteen, you should never use too many exclamation points.
Certain words (like adjectives) should not be overused.
I hate heavy dialects that force you to mentally sound out every word, and I hate misspelled words or poor grammar.
I wouldn't say this is a complete "no". I haven't really read any story that does it well, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. The problem is that most writers who try to do this make their animals behave in human ways.
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Post by mdpthatsme on Aug 19, 2010 14:44:10 GMT -5
Ummmm...I don't write a lot of "short stories." Mine always come out to be extremely long so that contradicts with the "short" part. As for stories that I do know. Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini started off with a date. And, it was a very good book. It wasn't a short story, but...evs to that. A lot of short stories in my old high school English book started off with dates, descriptions, dreams...so I don't agree with that other forum. After all, in an introduction of a short story by the definition of creating one, you have to: Explain the setting, which includes time and place, weather, etc. Introduce the main character(s) And stage part of the main conflict So...I wonder, how does this other forum believe you start a short story? I've spent too many years in English classes... Stacy: (remembering you don't like your name in bold) Stacy: Do you consider Valley a "short story" though? I mean if this other forum believes that "short stories" shouldn't have prologues, whatever...but I don't consider any one's Sims stories "short stories," considering a lot of us have 20+ chapters...  raquelaroden: I've always love how your chapters begin. It's so suspenseful! (oh look an exclamation point)  Oh, and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just to piss someone off.  |
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Post by thelunarfox on Aug 19, 2010 15:17:51 GMT -5
MDP, there's no one saying that you can't do these things, but I think some of these are a point against you if you start out that way.
Frankly, if something starts out with a setting, I'm gone. I've already been distracted. Give me something to sink my teeth into. Give me a promise that it's going to be really good! Rachel's best line opener, the one I STILL remember to this day, "Oh I want you." Granted Ed was looking at a book (and I'm paraphrasing the line, but see, still remember it and with me that's something).
But I have read good books that start out where the setting is described so beautifully, I couldn't look away. There are some people that really make settings come alive and you can see and feel it all around you as you read. Sometimes the setting is really important, and other times the setting is thrown into the story and isn't really necessary at all.
As for short stories, you don't get a lot of time or words to be wasted. You'd best hurry the heck up and tell your story. I love writing shorter stories. Mostly because (if you can't tell from my thing on settings), I don't have a lot of patience. I like to hop in the middle of things and figure things out once I'm there. That's why I love short stories and short science fiction stories at that.
And I totally agree with exclamation marks in regular writing. There is rarely a time when it's necessary. It's just not. Your own writing should make exclamation marks unnecessary, but again there's always exceptions.
But do it all you want when chatting. ;D
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Post by mdpthatsme on Aug 19, 2010 15:47:08 GMT -5
thelunarfox: Well, if this is a points system and we're the perfectionist of the century, not saying me. I am far from being a perfectionist in my writing, partially because I haven't crossed that line that makes me care about a little type-o. How would you begin the story, no setting, no description of character...there is the chance of conflict, but how do you clearly describe a conflict without a little setting? Would this example do? The beam was coming straight at me. There was no time to move. No time. It was going to hit me and I'd be lost to the sea. By that example. I can tell it's either a construction site or a condemned building by the sea...so a little setting not complete setting such as time and specific place...but some. It's blah to me and I wrote it...hmm...I am going nowhere with this...
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Post by thelunarfox on Aug 19, 2010 15:58:19 GMT -5
I think that's a very good beginning example. Setting and time will usually be hinted at in the writing, but really, does it always matter what time it is? If it's dark, I'll assume it's night. If the person can see a beam coming at them, I'd assume it's day time, or that there's at least enough light to see. I don't think I need to know more than the general idea, especially with a short story. Unless the time is important, like linking together a series of short scenes. You might like to take a peek at Flash Fiction Online. It's an online magazine with seriously short stories-- aka flash fiction. Writers are given 500 words to tell a story, and some are pretty good. It's an interesting exercise in being concise. |
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tesseracta
Full Member
5th Dimensional Spaz
Posts: 122
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Post by tesseracta on Aug 19, 2010 18:14:18 GMT -5
I have to confess that I'm not an adverb hater. I try not to use them, but sometimes they're efficient, and I might want to put the focus on something else in the sentence, paragraph, or story. I acknowledge that they're often abused, and yes, in most cases it is better to write it out, but I don't think they're the devil. : P
What I took from this essay, is a list of possible pitfalls. Some of the items, like exclamation point abuse, poor spelling, and repeating a word in a paragraph I wholeheartedly agree with.
I'm treating the other items as things to very careful about. As the saying goes, know the rules before you break them, right?
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tesseracta
Full Member
5th Dimensional Spaz
Posts: 122
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Post by tesseracta on Aug 19, 2010 18:20:58 GMT -5
The beam was coming straight at me. There was no time to move. No time. It was going to hit me and I'd be lost to the sea. By that example. I can tell it's either a construction site or a condemned building by the sea...so a little setting not complete setting such as time and specific place...but some. Hi MDP! I liked your example. I thought it was the beam of a boat that was threatening to sweep the character into sea, though. (Athough beams are the bottom of boats, not the things sails swing on which I thought. I'm nautically ignorant. : P) |
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Post by Stacy on Aug 19, 2010 19:10:35 GMT -5
Haha, wow, I am in such a different place now than when I first posted this. Emotionally, mentally, creatively - it's been an interesting journey this last year. Yeah - harangues like this can't make me feel inadequate and insecure anymore. One thing I've realized over time, from reading editor and agent blogs - the frame of reference is very very different. We're good. We know what we're doing. What they say doesn't apply to us. I didn't know that. I thought that when an agent's assistant said alliteration was wrong and horrible and bad, she meant that you could never have words with similar sounds in the same sentence. And well - umm. There goes my idea of myself as a decent writer. And haha, my ability to write in English, because seriously - there's only so many sounds. But what she was actually referring to was purple overwritten pretentious stuff. Like Bulwer-Lytton level stuff. My frame of reference was my own work. Her frame of reference was mountains of slush. And from all I've heard, your average Sims story on either of the Exchanges is of much better quality than 90% of the slush that agents and publishers have to go through. So if this list is making you insecure, remember - it's for beginners. And if you've found your way here somehow, I seriously doubt you are a beginner. Rules were made to be broken.  |
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lissa
New Member
pushing this sound through the underground
Posts: 5
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Post by lissa on Aug 19, 2010 21:03:16 GMT -5
Her frame of reference was mountains of slush. And from all I've heard, your average Sims story on either of the Exchanges is of much better quality than 90% of the slush that agents and publishers have to go through. Seriously?? I'd like to see how bad the "slush piles" can get. |
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