Handling regional references and slang

[thelunarfox]

Oh this is an interesting question. I really think it depends on the story.

Like in Ruin's case, I actually try very hard to be conscious of what I'm saying. Like sometimes in a first draft, I'll throw out a phrase that's typical and common to me, but would make no sense for someone like Paula to use because it would mean nothing to her. I try to keep an eye out for those things, but I know they sneak past me. I just know it.

There is a story I've been reading where the author lives in Mexico, and so she was writing a story revolving around drug cartels. She threw in a lot of Spanish slang, and so what she'd do is put up a definition in the text whenever one of the slang words are used. That's pretty handy. The slang adds some authenticity to the story.

[raquelaroden]

I don't think I watch out for stuff like this enough...nor do I think I put enough of it in intentionally. It would probably make my story a bit more authentic if I could add in more slang, etc.. But my problem is that I don't want to commit to an exact location for my version of Sunset Valley (though any cultural influences I see there are Mexican or U.S. Southern, mostly because I'm from Texas myself and it's all I think I could write convincingly at this point).

I really like to read it in stories, when it's convincing and when I think it's done well. I remember reading something....and I think it was in a published book...where the author was trying to pull off the U.S. southern stuff, and the character misused "ya'll" in almost every instance. She was using it in a way that no southerner would ever use it (as "you'll"--it's actually used as a contraction of "you all"--quite a difference!). That irritated me, but I still read the book. In many books that use regional idioms, I've seen it presented such that a general feeling/situation will be described in a way that is free of regional idioms or slang, and then the author will write, "or as her grandmother would say...." and then throw out the slang, etc.. It makes it clear, though I don't know if it achieves the same effect.

I love it when fantasy and sci-fi works make up their own idioms.

[laura]

Oh wow, you know, I actually don't think about this at all, lol! Maybe I should. I'm not sure if I've ever used any real dialect before in my LH story. Some of my characters have more proper speech than others, and some use certain kinds of slang or swear words that others wouldn't. But I generally don't research much for LH, as a rule, so I only pull out whatever is already in my head. And being that mid-western English is the blandest of all American dialects, it's probably not anything out of the ordinary, lol!

[funny random note: my sister used to work in phone customer service, and she told me that mid-western English, especially as found in Detroit, where we're from, is the blandest and most easily recognized kind of American English, so that was what they used to train people in foreign call centers to speak to the Americans here. ;D]

Same for my novel, I haven't really thought about it much. Though the characters I'm writing, for both, are generally contemporary, mid-western, college-educated or middle/working class people, like myself, lol! So that's probably why I don't think about it.

But one of my favorite books, The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao was just about 1/3 written in Spanish (okay, or at least a lot), without any translation, and I loved it just fine. (A lot of people were bothered by it though.) But I think context carries a foreign or slang word very far, and yes, it does lend authenticity.

So yes, if your character would use them, then absolutely do use them! I agree with Rachel though, you have to use them right or they'll just be a distraction. That's probably why I personally avoid the ones I'm not already familiar with in LH, because I don't want to do the research, lol! If my novel called for it, I would though.

Heredon Cove does this very well - she always has a lot of cultural dimension to her characters, using dialect. I'm pretty sure she never translates them, and doesn't need to either. Like I said, context is fine.

ETA: another note! Dialect should be used like seasoning, just a little bit to flavor the language, but definitely should not be overused. Again, read Heredon Cove for a good example. Her use is perfect!

I hope she comes to chime in on this conversation, actually, because I'd love to know her process, and if she researches all of those dialects and foreign words? Or maybe she speaks five languages or something, lol!

[laura]

I lied actually, I DO need to think about this quite often for my novel, since it's set about ten years ago. I'll end up using a slang word that's current to now, and then thinking, oh wait, they couldn't have said that, lol! So there's another to watch out for - historical slang.

[dinuriel]

Hmm... I don't really think about this for my Sim stories. I can justify this for various reasons for each story, but the fact of the matter is it just never really occurred to me, and most of them are set in an ambiguous location and/or fantasy world anyway (there's one that's set in Medieval Europe, but with that one, I can justify the lack of any obvious slang as the result of "translation").

I do, however, have to think about this for my one fantasy novel. The characters all have different native languages, so even when they're speaking in the "standard" language amongst each other, there are differences. For example, one of the major characters grew up speaking a language that has no first-person plural pronoun, so he always says "you and I" instead of "we".

Other than that, though, I don't really worry much about regional dialects. It's not that I don't think they're important or that I don't appreciate when other people use them, it just doesn't occur to me and I don't have too many instances where I would need to be conscious of it anyway.

[rad]

With most of my stories, I try to keep it fairly location/dialect neutral (though I am sure Britishisms come into it) but with Taken I am trying to be very context specific, looking up details of the places I am using as settings and the dialect, names etc of those places. It's an interesting challenge and one that will give at best a suggestion of place rather than any very specific evocation. Generally I don't mind what people do as long as it's not glaringly inaccurate. Small inaccuracies are fine, but big ones can be a bit jarring. I really hope I am not making too many big errors but if I am then I'll try and learn!

[somuchsong]

I think regional slang and the like can add colour to writing, and in the right kind of story, it works. If the meaning is going to be clear to your readers, I don't think there's any real reason to avoid it if you want to use it.

Oct 17, 2010 8:38:42 GMT -5 @laura said:

But one of my favorite books, The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao was just about 1/3 written in Spanish (okay, or at least a lot), without any translation, and I loved it just fine. (A lot of people were bothered by it though.)

I was one of those people! That was actually the first book I thought of when I read this thread. I didn't like it and part of the reason was the Spanish. I speak Italian semi-okay and that got me through part of it but so much of it was inscrutable to me. I wonder if the book worked better for Americans, because there is such a large Spanish-speaking community in so many parts of the US and perhaps even non-Hispanic Americans are vaguely familiar with the language? I don't know. But I can count the number of Spanish speakers I've met in real life on one hand, so I was lost for portions of that book.

But with footnotes explaining the Spanish, I might have enjoyed it. I've read books with parts written in Yiddish (another language that isn't spoken here very often) and in Greek (more common) but they had footnotes, so I didn't feel like I was missing anything. So I'm all for footnotes.

For me, I don't really want to nail down where Sullivan is (an English speaking country, somewhere on Earth is about as far as I've thought about it), so I actively avoid any slang or expressions that I know are specific to my area. I'm sure some have slipped in, because you're not always aware that an expression you use every day may be a complete mystery to someone on the other side of the world.

[heredoncove]

I've never actually thought about this too much although Laura is right (and thanks!) I do use it a lot.

For most of the characters I don't worry too much about regional references and slangs. The Cove is located somewhere vaguely New England like and even then I don't think I use a lot of language that is particular for the region. At least not that I'm aware.

I do think that they can enhance the story or make the characters' histories more accessible to the reader. With my two families of foreign transplant, I pepper their speech with their native tongues because I think that it makes their identities as foreigners more authentic. Its a show don't tell thing. I can say that Fabrice and Elise are French but it's different to show that they slip into the language when they are alone or slip into the language when they're excited.

I don't do a lot of research but try to work off what I know or can get a friend who speaks the language to tell me. I try not to over think the use bc then it doesn't read natural to me and then it sounds silly when they "say" it. I know enough Spanish to get by and always texts a friend before posting my French. I learned this after trying to find the perfect French poem for a character to recite. Never again.

I don't know. I rarely try to lock down location but if idioms/slangs/dialects would be perfect for that character use it bc, IMO, it adds just that much of a layer to the character.

I love it when fantasy and sci-fi works make up their own idioms.

I love this! Have you ever seen Farscape? They did the best job with this.

I was one of those people! That was actually the first book I thought of when I read this thread. I didn't like it and part of the reason was the Spanish. I speak Italian semi-okay and that got me through part of it but so much of it was inscrutable to me. I wonder if the book worked better for Americans, because there is such a large Spanish-speaking community in so many parts of the US and perhaps even non-Hispanic Americans are vaguely familiar with the language? I don't know. But I can count the number of Spanish speakers I've met in real life on one hand, so I was lost for portions of that book.

I never thought about this and that makes me feel super silly. I live in an area that has a high population of Spanish speakers and grew up in a Spanish speaking it rarely occurs to me that it different. Maybe I should start putting translations up.....

Sidenote: You guys can call me Nicole, lol.

[raquelaroden]

So that's your name! Nicole.

I haven't seen Farscape...I'll have to check it out (the hubby will be pleased, he loves many things sci-fi).

[drew]

Illandyra, what a great topic.

I would agree putting in a few regional references would be cool, give the story a local flavor, whether it is slang, or mentioning a local point of reference or interest. You can always do the footnote thing (is that what it is called?) or * it, with a short explanation below.

In Crime Story, you know I use some Irish slang, even though I am not Irish (ok, my ancestors are) I try to keep it to a minimum, just enough so you know the bloke is Irish.
And any other I use, I explain either at the beginning of the update, or at the end.

Nicker=money, that sort of thing.

Of course, I see by my stats someone from Dublin is reading my story, so now I am a little nervous that I haven't done my Irish guys justice! LOL!

Give us some Aussie slang, I would love it!

[laura]

Agreed! I'd love some more Aussie slang too! Or British slang, for that matter. It's funny, actually, I've caught myself slipping British terminology into my story by accident sometimes after listening to my hubby talk for so long! Sometimes I forget he's British, lol!

But yes, its part of what makes it fun that we're all from different places. Why not highlight what those differences are? Even among the American writers, I love to pick out the differences in our neighborhoods. After all, it means something different to live in Michigan than it does to live in California or Texas or New England. I think it's what makes all of our stories interesting.

[drew]

Laura, so true, Canada, or the part of Canada I am from on the east coast, we have a mix of British and American slang/talk.
We used 'pissed' in the American way, as in 'angry' but also the British way, meaning 'drunk'. Imagine, we say, 'I am really pissed you are pissed!!'
We also use the British spelling of some words, like 'colour' instead of 'color', interesting mix.

Can I say that? The 'p; word, If not, delete this comment, no worries.

[laura]

Oct 22, 2010 14:54:05 GMT -5 @drew said:

Can I say that? The 'p; word, If not, delete this comment, no worries.

Oh hell, if you can't say "pissed," then I'm in trouble!

[rad]

Oct 22, 2010 15:03:24 GMT -5 @illandrya said:

"pissed" is a funny one. We use it for both meanings in Oz, too, but add "off" to the end if we mean angry.

Oh, it's the same in Britain. Pissed (adjective) = drunk, pissed (verb) = had a pee, pissed off = annoyed.

I think it's almost unavoidable to use national words unless you're very deliberate (e.g. lift/elevator, dummy/pacifier, normality/normalcy, autumn/fall, swimming costume (cossie)/bathing suit) but I wonder how many of my regionalisms slip out without me knowing... lots in dialogue, certainly, I'm not sure in written speech.

[celebkiriedhel]

I think though that most people can get a lot of the simple regional words in context (i.e. Rad's list)

I'm thinking of including a glossary for mine - but to a certain extent, I'm kind of expecting my readers to let me know if they don't understand anything.

[celebkiriedhel]

Yeah. I lived in UK and Ireland for a while as well - and there was quite a few things that I got caught out on.

I'm so not going to tell you about the first time someone asked me if I wanted some craic.