Gameplay vs. Storytelling...

[celebkiriedhel]

This is not your average Gameplay vs. Storytelling question.

With setting up Sunrise Island, I decided to use Google Mapview to look at a small country town of the same approximate size, and see what public buildings and businesses they had.

And it's given me some cause for thought.

Because there's a whole stack of businesses that sims can do, that are not there - and a whole stack of businesses that sims don't currently have ways of doing that are there.

I chose Tenterfield, NSW as the town because it's one I'm familiar with, it has about 3K people, and services a large area of rural NSW (so there are more businesses than the purely town folk could maintain).

For example:

Butcher, Chemist, Furniture Store, Ambulance, Child Care, Hardware Store, Bank, Real Estate Agent, Clothing store, Post Office, etc are all there, but not in Sims.

Cinema, Hospital, Spa, Laundromat, University, Town Hall, Book store, Military Base, Stadium are not in the town, but are in the Sims.

So here's my question: How much do you manipulate your game to reflect real life? And how much do you manipulate your real life to reflect your game?

[dinuriel]

Hmmm. This is a good question.

Unfortunately, I can't really answer it because I'm currently running on Sims 2 base game only. I don't have the option to make businesses or downtowns, so I only have the residential lots, some of which are made to look like commercial areas. Since the option to view adjacent lots wasn't introduced until Night Life, my neighborhoods are completely scattered--some lots that would be far apart in-story are right next to each other in-game, and vice versa.

So I guess my answer is that my game doesn't reflect real life at all. Sorry that I couldn't contribute much to this discussion.

[laura]

Well I recreated the moon, with an Earthrise sky, lol! So I'd say, a lot?

But we have a lot more CC and EPs to work with in TS2 than you guys probably have. But depending on what CC you can get your hands on, you could probably fake pretty much anything.

[raquelaroden]

I think it depends on what you want--that's why I want to create a world big enough so that it makes sense that there are all the larger businesses and things available even if it doesn't make sense to have them in a small neighborhood. That way the opportunities are there, but the Sims would have to move closer to those areas to have access to certain jobs, careers, etc.. A city that is further away would have a lot to offer, but a small suburb may not have its own movie theater or corporate towers, etc.. The military base may be it's own little suburb, with military housing surrounding it and a commissary, general store (PX), school, and maybe a park or two. But with the passage of time and the movement of families, it would make sense that the suburb would eventually grow larger and start offering more and more on its own.

A butcher shop would be interesting to try to recreate. Especially with the capability of meat-bearing plants in TS3 ;D....you could say it was a new form of meat engineering that is humane. In one of the other threads about neighborhood play, Lunar mentioned a tool that allows you to sell items from a Sim's inventory, so you could set up a butcher shop that way...

A pharmacy might be more difficult...I'd probably be content to let that one reside inside the hospital, however you imagined it.

A furniture store would also be possible, I think, given that you can sculpt furniture in TS3...I haven't played with it that much, but since you can usually sell artworks, it seems like you'd be able to sell your furniture in much the same way....

Child care might be a bit difficult....but maybe not. It could certainly be faked. Maybe set up the lot like a library....

I don't know about a hardware store, but with Fast Lane it might be possible to set up a garage, and maybe do a transfer funds cheat to mimic maintenance and repair on cars?

I'm just going on and on here, I'll shut up for now!

[celebkiriedhel]

The other side of it is... maybe I should just create them as facades, for the purpose of a streetscape, and have the businesses that I can really have.

I was thinking the consignment store can cover a multitude of sins! like furniture and etc.

Please don't shut up - I like it when you go on and on - it gives me ideas to think about!

I've been thinking again about a hardware store - and came to the conclusion that, that's where the handymen come from - the plumbers and electricians and things. And maybe it's just a matter of having a good looking store, but keep track of the finances when houses are being built.

[raquelaroden]

I've been thinking about clothing stores, too....I've been wondering how many outfits to allow my Sims to have, and how much should be charged for each piece, etc....how I would keep up with who had what. I might just set up a clothing store for show and deduct a certain amount from each family's budget, depending on a variety of factors...that way I wouldn't have to wonder if so-and-so had this shirt or that shirt or not, etc..

The post office is an interesting idea, but again that would be something mainly for show I think....

[dbloveshermac]

What if you built a little building in town and called it an employment agency? It could really be a residence, and you could move in eight roommates, dress them in unlocked service outfits (maid, handyman, etc.). Would that work?

[thelunarfox]

Ani has some awesome mods that may help with the faking bit including shop for clothes and shop from inventory which makes it possible for sims to technically own their own business.

As for the question-- this reminds me of the Isle of Thyme which was the TS2 'hood that got me into Sim blogging. She had this amazing world that ran so neatly, and she'd done just this for the most part. Making up ideas, figuring out what worked and what didn't.

I remember her being very big on only doing things the sims could actually benefit from. Like she wouldn't have opened a butcher shop in her TS2 neighborhood if the sims couldn't take the meat home and cook it. Maybe that's a good starting point? Deciding first off if you want to fake it or not.

[pinkfiend1]

You wouldn't necessarily need a clothes store-it could be an interent ordering service and is delievered next time the mail man comes. I mean all Sims can get on a computer at the library-maybe have it so that they pay to use the computer somehow, that would be easy enough to do with the family funds cheat.

[celebkiriedhel]

LOL that would be sooo cool!! I have no idea on how I would do a saddlery.

I used to live in Tenterfield - my dad was the Presbyterian minister there for a while. I have many, many mixed feelings about that town. The scary thing is that it hasn't changed at all! Since we left there about 30 years ago!

[celebkiriedhel]

I know. I'm a crazy loon.

[ani]

Man I miss the Isle of Thyme, it was my favourite blogs back then. I liked her stories, but I loved her behind the scene posts.

So here's my question: How much do you manipulate your game to reflect real life?

I manipulate my game in the way that I don't like Sim's getting money from no-where. All businesses, if possible need to be run by Sims. Also, to add a business to my world, it needs an owner.

For example a grocery store. I don't use the rabbit hole grocery store, I use my own shopping mod, and my farmer sells his products through the store. The same with the book-store that I run, it's not the rabbit hole book-store, it's a book-store owned by a sim that sells books. To make sure Sim's don't get extra money I just make sure the shop (usually a hangout or a consignment shop) lot value is less than what it needs to be online, and that way you don't get to collect profit from it, but all profit actually comes from sales to other sims.

Some businesses need to be invested in to be able to get profit like a bar, but only the rich will be allowed to open up places like that, because they are already rich, so the profit they make is not going to spoil them, they are already not struggling financially.

I like the idea that you should only open up businesses that sims can benefit from. I actually used this idea back when playing TS2. All my shops were either selling a service (bar, club, cafe, restaurant), or a prduct that Sims can actually use, like clothing, grocery store, bakery and such. Sims were not allowed to open shops that sold furniture or items they crafted, because I didn't want to clog the customer's inventory with items they didn't really need, and couldn't really afford, and I didn't want to just delete those items from the Sim's inventory because then the shop owner would have gotten his profit from no-where because the customer hadn't really lost any money.

Other things I do to modify the game to reflect RL is listening to my Sim's wants. Like if a sim wants to change jobs, I'll change their job, or if they want to break up with somebody, I'll do that but even to this there are exceptions. For example my politician, the moment he married his wife he got the want to just be friends with her, but they are still together because it would effect his political career if he separated from his wife. Sometimes Sims will have to do stuff they don't want, like go to a specific career if they have an influential parent and the parent wants to see their kid in such and such job. This is what happened to Mortimer, he would have wanted to live around arts and music, but his dad forced him into business, so now he's in business and keeps his arts and music just as a hobby.

I also try to keep up some type of real life education system in my game. If you sucked at school you are not allowed to become a doctor. Also if you want to become a doctor, you need to go to college first. Because we don't have uni in TS3, I use Twallan's career mod as a substitute uni. For example if a sim wants to become a doctor, they first need to finish up uni, which is the part time hospital job. After they get to the top of the part time job, are they allowed to switch jobs to from part time to the real one. If you was bad in school then your fate might be getting stuck to part time jobs all your life, then Twallan's part time jobs don't represent uni, but just a part time job.

And how much do you manipulate your real life to reflect your game? For the exception of using the word WooHoo for real life WooHoo, I don't really manipulate real life to reflect my game.

[celebkiriedhel]

With your grocery store - how do you deal with things like bubble bath and rubber ducks?

Also... I was thinking about how in WA we can buy cooked foods from the shops, and then eat it on seating around it. It would be interesting to do that in our main hood.

Hang on! I just realised you're THAT Ani! You are so awesome! I have your working sims mods in my game!

How hard is it for you to do the hacks? Are they still in Simantics? or do they use a different language nowadays? (Can you tell I haven't hacked since Sims1?)

[thelunarfox]

Nov 19, 2010 1:02:47 GMT -5 @celebkiriedhel said:

Also... I was thinking about how in WA we can buy cooked foods from the shops, and then eat it on seating around it. It would be interesting to do that in our main hood.

Oh, I do this. I wanted to try using the shop from inventory and having a sim actually cooking precooked meals, but at the moment I just have the food registers out. One in a park and one in another mixed shopping lot. It works really well and other sims will come and eat too so it really give the feel of an actual restaurant.


Oh the working sims mod. I've been meaning to do a post with that. I really love that mod. I've got it set up for some public places. Makes it easier to get customers.

[ani]

Nov 19, 2010 1:02:47 GMT -5 @celebkiriedhel said:

With your grocery store - how do you deal with things like bubble bath and rubber ducks?

I don't sell those items in my store, but if they can be placed into a treasure chest, you can buy them through the mod.

How hard is it for you to do the hacks? Are they still in Simantics? or do they use a different language nowadays? (Can you tell I haven't hacked since Sims1?)

Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's frustratingly hard. Sometime's I wish I wouldn't mod so I could just enjoy the games because there are times I want to just play, but then I notice a bug in some mod and instead of playing, I start fixing and testing the bug and before I know it it's time for bed and I have not played at all. But the reward I get from seeing my Sim's using my mods, is very much worth the trouble.

TS3 mods are either xml modifications, or C#. If you are interested, this tutorial is where you should start.