On editing and grammar

[hrootbeer]

To begin with, I want to pose my questions on grammar and editing in a hope to elicit discussion.
1. Do you have advice for editing your own work to avoid making a lot of errors before you post?
2. Do you have an editing routine?
3. Do you have comments about grammar or editing you'd like to share (I want to avoid a complaint thread about errors, but comments for discussion should be ok).

I'll start out by admitting that I'm a high school Language Arts teacher...here in the US, that is a nice euphemism for teaching literature, writing, and reading comprehension. I am also the adviser for our school's yearbook and I have a background in editing and journalism.

All that said, I am not the paragon of grammar or even that much of a grammar Nazi. I'm also probably one of the worst spellers I know. So, in regards to grammar, spelling, etc. I'm not perfect.

Here are my own answers to the questions to start things off:

1. As a teacher, I advise my students to do two things before turning in a "final" draft. First, re-read it to yourself for flow, and with an eye to catch errors you know you always make. If your brain supplies correctness (and a lot of people do that), then read your work backward--start at the end and work up by paragraph. Second, I tell writers to give yourself time between writing and editing, so that you come to the editing process fresh.

2. I am not sure I consider what I do an editing routine, but I do have a couple of things I try to do. First, I always wait at least 2 hours before publishing once I consider myself "done". Then, right before I hit publish, I read through one more time. Also, whenever possible, I read my work aloud. If I can't read it aloud, I try to "hear" it in my head as I'm reading. This is how I check to see if things "flow".

3. My comment is about Homonyms (words that sound the same but are spelled differently)--the most common are the ones that are contractions like your/you're or there/they're/their. I honestly believe people know the difference between these, but sometimes type or write the wrong thing because their brain works faster than their hands. I see this a lot in younger writers. However, I make these mistakes myself on occasion (their/there is my nemesis!). I think it's inevitable that people make homonym errors, but if you know that you do it, you should check for them.

3b. I wanted to give a shout out to a nice writing resource for people who have issues with punctuation. Personally, I don't worry about it so much or get bothered by it unless people pull a Virginia Woolf and use commas to separate EVERYTHING! But I know that commas are a lot of people's "issue". This is a link to the Online Writing Lab at Perdue University for Punctuation Patterns. I make a print out of this for my students and tell them to laminate it and keep it forever. Some actually listen to me

[hrootbeer]

Did you see that I misspelled editing in my post title...I told you I'm a terrible speller!

*edit* I fixed it. I just couldn't stand leaving it up there.

Here's a video on proofreading I think you might find amusing. It's a Taylor Mali poem on Youtube.

"The Impotence of Proofreading"

[thelunarfox]

Oh your advice is really great! Thanks for the read backwards tip.


1. Do you have advice for editing your own work to avoid making a lot of errors before you post?

Take your time. Write entries early, then give it a day or two and revisit it with your mind fresh.

2. Do you have an editing routine?

I write the entry, usually in advance. Then I give it some time, print it out, and read over a hard copy of the entry that I intend to post. And then, when I'm working on posting, I give it another go over. Once it's posted, I still read it through one more time before I post anywhere that I've updated.

I am a horrible speller, so I rely on my web browser as a spell checker in those final moments before posting.

3. Do you have comments about grammar or editing you'd like to share (I want to avoid a complaint thread about errors, but comments for discussion should be ok).

Not really, but you know what I've seen from time to time? Wander and wonder getting confused. I've seen it written "I wander what will happen." At first I thought it was a typo, but it kept happening by the same author so after a while I thought maybe I was the one who had it wrong, lol.

[laura]

A catch-all response, some things I've tried:

- ditto what Lunar said about give yourself lots of time to come back to the piece with a fresh pair of eyes.
- read it out loud.
- read it in different fonts. Don't know why that one works, but it does. Sometimes the change can highlight an error you didn't see before.
- edit on paper if you normally draft on computer.
- read something else super-awesome, like a chapter from your favorite author, before you sit down to edit your own work. It helps set the bar high.
- if it's important enough, find a beta-reader to give it a look. No matter how much attention I give my work, there's always something my betas catch that I just don't for whatever reason.

Yes, and thank God for web browsers for spell checking! lol!

[celebkiriedhel]

I do love Taylor Mali, and that one is great.

1. Do you have advice for editing your own work to avoid making a lot of errors before you post?

Not really. I am a big believer in people finding the way that works best for them. I can share how I do things - but that's not necessarily going to work for others - we're all wired differently.

2. Do you have an editing routine?

Personally, the thing I do that seems to work the best for me - is to read it out loud. Sentences that are clumsy jump out, Spelling mistakes become obvious. When I'm reading I'll speak out the contractions (i.e. they are instead of they're), and if it's the wrong word it will become obvious.

Also, leaving it a day before checking it stops me adding my own silent words in it.

Reading it backwards seems to help with checking spelling mistakes.

I put commas in where I need to take a breath, or pause. Then I go through and pull out all the commas that don't really need to be there.

That covers most of the grammar and spelling.

When I'm editing my own piece - I'm pretty ruthless.

I go through every sentence,

• decide if its adding anything to the mix - if not? It's gone.
  
• decide if it can be said better. Yes? its rewritten. (And there's my nemesis - its and it's - I can never remember which way it goes around!)
  
• Pull out all the really, very, and other irrelevant words. Exception - dialogue - if they suit the speaker, I'll leave them in.
  
• Make sure the formatting works - paragraphs, extra spaces, extra lines.
  
• Passive Voice! Change it to active.
  
• Sentence length - make sure it can be said on one breath. If not? Break it up.
  
• POV - one POV per sentence.
  

It's harder to put things in that take things out, but I do try -

• Make sure that all the senses are covered in some way.
  
• Does the imagery make sense - does it need more?
  
• Does the reader get a clear picture?
  
• Does what is written fit the personalities of the characters?
• Does it need to be explained better?
  

Most all of my scenes can be summed up in one sentence. e.g. Judith accuses Grace of stealing money.

Does the scene do what it's supposed to do?

I have to add - I can be a bit stupid about my writing. There's one purple prose bit in the Last Sunrise, and I've tried to rewrite it 3 times, but have never come up with anything better. It makes me cringe everytime I read it. (Last sentence in Hear).

3. Do you have comments about grammar or editing you'd like to share (I want to avoid a complaint thread about errors, but comments for discussion should be ok).

The one thing I know, is that if I can stay in the story flow - then the grammar and spelling is incidental, I can tolerate mistakes. But if it makes me jump out of the story - then it needs to be fixed.

A big one for me is the old rule of:

I before E except after C.

Seeing Freind instead of Friend makes me go crazy every time.

[hrootbeer]

Wander/Wonder is a homonym error, sort of. It's what I call dialectical error. When you say a word so similarly to the other word, you might spell it wrong. However, in this case it might just be that the person didn't know the difference. My students miss our/are because where we live, they pronounce the two words the same. DRIVES ME NUTS!

I before E, except after C....I hate that spelling rule. I get it wrong a lot! Look at the word "their"--the rule doesn't apply. Stupid spelling!

[laura]

Oh, there's a second part to that rule:

I before E, except after C... or when sounding like "ay" as in neighbor and sleigh.

Still doesn't cover their though, lol!

[blackdaisies]

I know this thread is going to be useful for me for sure.

Do I have any advice about editing? - No, not really, I think as a writer I'm extremely disorganized. I shouldn't be giving advice.

Do I have an editing routine? - See above. Extremely disorganized. Yup.

I try to narrate my story as simply as I can. I'm not the best at grammar to be honest, but I do try to make sure that everything is in place and words make sense. What I've got going for me is that I'm usually great with spelling and homonyms, and I usually know how to structure a sentence. Punctuation fails me at times.

I reread everything at least twice before I publish it. Sometimes, more if I'm not sure. I make sure everything at least flows right, and makes sense and conveys everything I want to tell. I also try very hard to look at things objectively to make sure the pacing of the chapter works for me. To me, that's actually a lot more important than grammar and sentence structure.

I then publish it and it belongs to the world.

Waiting 2 hours before I publish is a good idea. I usually get far too excited to post something that I sometimes rush this, but I do think it's a wise thing to do. Once, I sat on a chapter for a day, and it was difficult.

[Sarahjane]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't edit. I'm good at spelling, grammar, and punctuation, so I rarely have technical mistakes in my published posts. But I really need to get into an editing routine because often the flow of my posts feels very awkward to me. thelunarfox, I think I am going to borrow your method of writing posts the day before I want to post them so I can take a break between writing and editing. I find editing really boring, and if I try to write and edit in the same sitting, I end up rushing the editing.

[dinuriel]

Apart from on-spot editing while I write, I don't really edit either, except for a quick skim just before pressing the "Post" button. I'm shamefully lazy with my Sims stuff--everything I post is a hasty first draft with no intense edits, and I normally post them as soon as they're finished, just because I lack the patience to do anything else.

Are there better ways? Definitely. Will I change mine any time soon? Probably not. Sims writing is my recreational writing: I enjoy doing it and I love my characters and all, but since it's my fun stuff, I don't feel the need to make it good. It is what it is.

[pinkfiend1]

*joins Sarahjane's non-editing club* I'm just too lazy to bother most of the time. I know I really need to get better at it. But there are certain words I always get right. Big Elephants Find Orange Rabbit Ears (before), Big Elephants Can't Always Use Small Exits (because)necessary has one collar and two socks and onamatopoia. I can never restraunt/restaraunt/restuaraunt (third one?) and deffinently/deffinantly (can't think on that one) but I always spell them so wrong the spell check can't work out what the word is menat to be, so I either play around with the letters or use thesaurus to find a similar word to link back to the one I want.
*Makes a note to follow the tips.*
That youtube was funny.
If it's an consolation I have proofread this post.

[Stacy]

I am so incredibly sleep deprived. But I wanna answer this!!! Because it's ironic right now, because I'm likely to make errors and write sentences that don't make sense.

1. Do you have advice for editing your own work to avoid making a lot of errors before you post?

Like Kiri, I don't want to call this advice or try to be all recommending it to other people.

But I just...I constantly reread while writing. And I tend to not misspell words generally - my school spelling bee record is 4-1, yeaahh! And the one year I lost, I was runner-up. And that was also the only year that the last person left straight up won, instead of having a spell-off between the last two people. I was robbed, I tell you! Robbed of my perfect spelling streak.

I still remember how I burned when people would ask the person who won that year how to spell stuff.

As for grammar - I play that by ear. I did google the rules for dialogue punctuation for Seth's line about Sarah being a good cook. It being my only one with a tag, I don't know much about tags and punctuation.

2. Do you have an editing routine?

Umm. Write some words. Read them. Delete some of them and rearrange others. Stare out the window. Reread from beginning. Delete more words. Stare off into distance. Add a sentence. Delete half of it. Reread. Rearrange some sentences. Reread. Delete some words. Stare off into space. Add another sentence. Delete it.

3. Do you have comments about grammar or editing you'd like to share

I don't know much about grammar. We did six weeks of it in ninth grade English, and that's it. And I don't think I paid much attention or understood most of it.

So - for me the word "editing" has nothing to do with grammar or spelling. It means...it means...well...I don't know, I edit while I write so really for me editing means writing.

Err - the delete key rocks!

I am now going to sleep.

[hrootbeer]

Jan 22, 2011 1:29:35 GMT -5 Stacy said:

. . .
It means...it means...well...I don't know, I edit while I write so really for me editing means writing.

I love that you said this...and believe it. I think it's so true. I also edit while I write and reread the crap out of everything (and I STILL miss things!). Editing should be fundamental to writing.

I understand people who say this is fun writing and therefore they don't edit as viciously as they might if it were "real" writing. I totally get that because I can tell you that I've made tons of errors that I later catch in my posts, but I don't go in and fix them. If it were something more serious, you bet I'd fix it. But my Sims writing is pure enjoyment for me.

Still, I like writing and want to do it more professionally. I am using my Sims writing to improve my over all writing. And I suppose for me that includes editing.

P.S. Stacy, you have a poet's soul. That's clear in your minimalist style. You should read Margret Atwood. Her style is similar. I'm not sure that she's written much recent work, but Handmaid's Tale is one of my favorites. Oh, and Yan Martel. The Life of Pi is similarly minimal and poetic.