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Post by Stacy on Oct 11, 2009 12:17:40 GMT -5
I brought this up on Twitter and it got a decent response and Laura suggested discussing it here. I've noticed a certain attitude in some reactions to my plans of writing a straight text version of Valley when the Sims version is done, and I think it ties into an attitude I've noticed on some non-legacy Sims story sites. I don't know. Maybe it's just that I am not and never have been motivated by external rewards and so it's just a difference in personality. Some people seem to think that Sims stories are, well - "lesser". Like because you don't get paid for them and they use pictures from a game, then they're not as valid as straight text and are immature. And I don't get how people who use the game to tell their stories can have this attitude - it's like why are you using the game then, if it's so beneath you? Do you think that Sims stories are like a bicycle with training wheels and are for little kids who are learning but can't quite write straight text yet? Or do you think that they can be a valid and mature form of art and creative expression? Also, I suck at phrasing things neutrally. Always have, always will.
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Post by thelunarfox on Oct 11, 2009 17:46:49 GMT -5
I've noticed the same attitude and it kind of annoys me. It seems any story that uses Sims to illustrate it is considered a sims story which automatically makes is not a real story. Have they not seen Electorate? She's hardly using words at all, only the game to illustrate the story. I think if anyone saw that, maybe they might be disposed to reconsider the idea that any story having to do with sims can't be art. I definitely think of the sims story as a valid type of art form. A lot of people put a lot of effort into their story and into the pictures. A lot of those people happen to be artists, not always just writers, but sometimes photographers, painters, even techie people just letting loose. Of course it gets tricky. I mean, I wouldn't consider the general Legacy writer or picture caption writer a high end art form. I'm talking about the people who are really putting a deep effort into it. Now I wonder how many of you consider your stories "Sim Stories?" To be honest, Ruin isn't meant to be a sim story. I write it first, without thinking about the game, and then I do what I can to bring it to life. I think it's another cheat of mine because I don't know where else that story would fit or what else I would do with it. It's just fear and laziness again.
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Post by girlyesterday on Oct 11, 2009 18:43:46 GMT -5
It's not an invalid art form, it's another medium, another way of telling a story, just like people tell stories using comics, visual art, photography, haiku, poetry, movies, the list goes on. None of it is invalid, it's all creative expression.
The reasons I like it is because it combines my two loves, art and writing into the one tangible medium. It appeals to me visually and narratively.
Money doesn't come into it. If someone writes for the money, they are in the wrong business. Most starting writers don't get paid a heck of a lot anyway and you're only as good as your last book they say.
Writing is writing and storytelling is storytelling, it doesn't matter the form or medium it takes. When I was roleplaying, there were people who had similar attitudes towards roleplayers - it's still storytelling albeit a collaborative form of storytelling.
Sometimes, I also think it's society's fault for thinking anything worth doing needs some sort of reward at the end, usually of monetary value or public recognition. The simple pleasure of doing what you love seems to label you a "dreamer" or a "hopeless case".
Lunar, my stories are just stories. I convert a large portion of mine to the Sims because I like the pretty pictures. I also enjoy doing it more these days than my non-sim stories. I don't know, just something about adding pictures to my narrative, it appeals to me ... a lot. It feels like a hobby and it's fun like a hobby is supposed to be. My other writing stuff tends to feel like a chore sometimes. Doing sim stories has made me love writing again rather than resenting it and wanting to kill the urge.
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Post by laura on Oct 11, 2009 19:00:32 GMT -5
I'm glad you posted this discussion! I just thought I'd bring up Emily Dickinson first. She never published any more than a handful of her *thousands* of poems during her lifetime, and yet I'm sure nobody would try to argue that her poetry isn't valid art. Same with Van Gogh, whose art was largely unappreciated during his lifetime. So it certainly isn't money or fame that makes something valid art. I've had this discussion countless times with my husband about what exactly I'm doing, or even can do, with my Sims blog. It's a good story, people like it, but as far as I know, it can't really go any further than that in its current format because I don't believe we own the rights to our Sims pictures. (Is that true?) So I've decided that I'm fine with Lakeside Heights just being what it is, a story that I write for fun. I consider it practice writing, and I could even consider it building my future fan base, lol! That said though, I do own the rights to my original characters and my writing, and I can honestly do whatever the crap I want with them outside of the game. I'm writing a short story right now based on one of my characters, and I fully plan on publishing it in a literary journal for money. (Lets see if I can, lol!) No, I don't at all consider LH "training wheels." I consider it just another one of my writing projects - but pro bono. I'm giving the world a freebie. I don't put any less into my LH stories than I would any one of my "real" stories. In fact, in the beginning, I used to write them faster, at a lesser quality than I knew I was capable of, and it wasn't doing my "real" writing any favors. Stacy, the only issue you might run into is that some publishers don't want to publish anything that has been published before - and published in a blog or anywhere on the internet counts as publication. I'm sure this isn't a hard rule. And I'm sure in your translation to text format, you'd probably change it enough to even be unrecognizable as the same story. And you'd be safe with your original characters, but the canon characters and their histories might have to be swapped out for original ones. Lunar, no, I don't like to consider LH a Sim-story, even though some of it is inspired by gameplay. My stories are inspired by a lot of things, gameplay, lines of conversation overheard in the real world, something I read in a book. But the characters I'm writing about exist very much out of the game. (I wrote about this more in depth in my gameplay vs. storytelling post.) Carnaxa, it IS fun! And yes, traditional fiction IS more like work. Why is this? I've been trying to pinpoint what the difference is, and how I might bring some more of that fun to my "real" writing. I guess, when all is said and done, it boils down to what you want out of this experience. Me, personally, I want to make a career out of my writing. That's why I only write one Sim-story, and the rest of my writing is geared toward traditional publication. And that's why I consider LH my practice/freebie/fun/hobby writing, and everything else is "serious." And that's also why I need to make sure I keep myself in balance between the two. I don't know if I'm thinking about this the right way, but I hope I am. I certainly don't feel like I'm wasting my time. I'm learning and growing from it, and bringing more depth to my "serious" writing.
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Post by mdpthatsme on Oct 15, 2009 19:17:48 GMT -5
One The Sims are T for Teen, so no little kid should be playing it. ...maybe that's too literal. How many people in the world play The Sims and how many of them make stories using the Sims? I want someone to look up that statistic, because I'm very sure it's very hefty. Is taking a collection of pictures and creating words to go along with them not a graphic novel or comic book? Which are one of the most popular ways of entertainment and have been for generations. How many movies and TV series have been made from comic books or graphic novels? A lot more lately, at least, I've noticed. I write manuscripts non-Sim related, usually my Sim stories come from something I've written from those stories that way people can see the characters and actions that were made in my mind. It's more than helpful than anything I think.
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