blog lurking and the nature of readers vs. writers

[laura]

Starr (Apple Valley) posted this over at N99, and I thought I'd bring the link over here because I know we've all talked about this at one point or another.

Is Blog Lurking Really So Wrong?

And my 2 cents, copy/pasted from what I wrote at N99:

This has also been a hard thing to come to terms with for me, but it's just the nature of things - readers are NOT writers. Readers like to read, they don't like to write comments. If you think about it in terms of printed fiction, how many times do readers of novels go and then write reviews for them online? Not very often at all, in the big picture. Maybe not even 1% of them.

I also find different people are more willing to comment on different things. Some of my readers like to comment on the story posts, and others are more likely to comment on the fluffy posts. Sometimes my "lurkers" will come out to post on my fun posts, like surveys or polls.

It's only because we are also bloggers that we appreciate what it means to leave a comment on other people's blogs. But for readers, it wouldn't even cross their minds. It doesn't mean they don't appreciate what you've done. So I don't think there's anything wrong with lurking, if that's how a reader feels most comfortable - BUT as a writer, I do like to hear from them at least once. You know, a "hi, here I am" kind of thing. Because really, how else does a blogger know what she's written has been enjoyed at all? A lurker could quite happily lurk the whole time and never say anything, and eventually if the writer doesn't get any (or enough) response, they might just stop writing. That doesn't work for either party.

That's kind of why I like doing my polls, I think. It gives me a chance to interact with my readers who aren't likely to post a comment.

[thelunarfox]

I like your idea of polls as a way to encourage people to interact. Huh, I never thought of that.

In my case, I love lurkers. Sometimes I get readers who are there for hours at a time in one go. That I love even more than comments. There have been times I've gotten comments, and I've felt that they were mostly commenting just to advertise their story, you know? They never directly said, "Hey check out my story!" but they'd pop in, comment on something random for a couple of entries and then poof! gone. Sometimes I think it's because I didn't read and comment on their stories.


But I think the thing with blogging is that we do it to get responses and conversation and interaction. So there's nothing wrong with wanting people to leave comments or feedback.

[rad]

I lurk in some places, and I sometimes lurk on the blogs of people here, even though I will post at least every few entries. I try to comment on all the blogs I read occasionally but rarely do I manage to comment on every post. It's just time and energy, and I feel bad about it, but I know I have a lot of lurkers on mine and I don't really mind them being silent, even though comments are good.

[katherine]

As a former lurker myself, I think that sometimes the reason that people don't comment is because they just can't think of anything to say. No matter how much someone likes or hates a story, sometimes they just can't articulate it.

[tesseracta]

I'm a recovering lurker. I've been trying very hard to come out of my shell in these last months, and am slowly getting better. (Right now though, I'm having serious time-management issues which is making it hard to leave comments, where before it was just shyness).

I'm fairly shy both online and irl. Sometimes I don't leave comments because I'm afraid of sounding like a brown-noser or a dumbass. Sometimes a blog already has a zillion comments on it, and I don't feel like I'd have anything new to contribute. Many times I don't leave a comment just because I'm too dull, tired, or unimaginative to say anything insightful about it even if I liked it. If I can get over these obstacles, then I will leave a comment. : )

I do find it very enjoyable as a reader when the author takes the time and trouble to respond back to me. Wordpress now has a "like" button, which I should start using too.

As authors, is it better to receive a simple "Great Chapter" comment than none at all?

[laura]

Lunar, oh true! Sometimes I'll find that in my stats too, somebody reading for hours and hours. Now that is true devotion, lol! And agreed, I can always tell when somebody's just popping in to leave their link. Sometimes they even say it - "Come check out my blog!" I've had that a good handful of times. It makes it almost certain I will NOT go check out their blog, lol!

Rad, time and energy is most often my thing too. There is just not enough time to comment on every single one. I was driving myself mad trying.

Katherine, that's true too! Especially on story posts, I know. And I lurk for a very long time when I start reading a new story, especially if it's one that's been going for a long time, because when I finally do say something, I want to know what I'm talking about so I don't look stupid, lol!

Tesseracta, agreed! I love the conversations that can happen in the comments of these stories! It's one of the most rewarding things about doing this!

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't at all mind if someone just wants to say "great chapter" - sometimes that's all you've got in mind, lol! At least then I know they enjoyed it, because otherwise I'd have no idea they even read it at all.

[Stacy]

I get a fair few of the read my story comments - I imagine I encourage them a bit with my pro-advertising attitude. But still, you know - I don't mind if it's like "OMG I love your story and you're a great writer, I would be honored if you'd come check out mine and tell me what you think." But if it's just straight up "Read this" without any hint that they've actually read and liked my stuff, then yeah....

I mean, like I said, I'm pro advertising. I'm cool with you linking your stuff in your comment. But I don't think it's too much to ask that you either have a history of commenting so we already have a relationship, or that you show some sign of having read my story. And even if you have commented before, it'd be nice if you would still mention something about the update you're commenting on when you link your blog.

I used to have a stats counter that would show the time spent at my site and all that. Got rid of that thing really fast. The WordPress blog stats page already pushes the borders of my neuroticism, thanks.

My husband is a self-proclaimed Reader, not a Writer. He doesn't comment on anything online ever. And when he reads my stuff, the most he'll tell me is that it was good. Which that would drive me crazy from anyone else - I'd be all "What, just good? Okay, what part sucked?" LOL. But I get what he means when he says it.

Sometimes I say "I like you more than Jason liked Lilith!" and he laughs a lot. Actually just last night I said that and he laughed and I was like "What? Jason liked Lilith a lot, and I like you more than that!" He said "Yeah, I was just laughing because that's the only "liking" in your stories that isn't sick and twisted in some way."

He really laughs when I say "I like you more than Seth likes fire!"

So he represents the silent reader perspective around here.

I love any and all comments, really. I may complain about some on occasion, but in sane normal moods I appreciate and am grateful for them all. I am extremely okay with just "Great chapter!"

Note - "great", not "good". Unless I'm married to you.

As for my own commenting habits - I like to comment on stuff that doesn't get that many comments, because I know how important comments are and I want to support the writers who haven't found an audience yet and keep them going until they do find readers. But I also run into the time/energy issue - my own writing takes a LOT of those resources.

Oh, I disabled that "like" thing as soon as I figured out how to do it - I like using it on other people's blogs, but I do not need that added to my neuroticism - omg, why has no one "liked" this?

Okay, finishing my thoughts - had to stop for a while and shut down the computer and deal with IRL stuff.

I want readers, and I'll take readers of all stripes - people who comment on every update, comment on some updates, never comment. I mean, yeah, it'd be great if the people who never comment would say hi once, but you know - if they don't want to, at least I can still see their clicks on the stats page and know that they're reading.

It's just - I want my writing to reach people, you know? I want to know if it made other people feel or think things. I want to talk to those people and get to know them and make new friends.

On the other hand, there's only so many friends one can have and I do still need that time and energy for actually writing.

So yeah - as neurotic as I am about comments, I'll say that I am totally cool with readers who don't comment. As long as I have at least a few who do.

[celebkiriedhel]

I am primarily a reader. And as a reader it takes a lot for me to comment on anything. I even lurk at N99 and my own forum for Maxis' sake!

I think that's why I posted my stories at my website initially - because I didn't care about the comments, I just wanted to be able to read the stories online. I'm a big re-reader too. Don't ask me how many times I've re-read Lord of the Rings, Pilgrim's Progress or Shakespeare. I've lost count.

But I understand that people like to comment, and like to read comments. And after reading some of the comments on Lakeside Heights, and so on I wouldn't mind reading some of those comments for myself as well. Also I used to post links to my stories in my own forum and the regulars would comment on them. It was fun to be able to talk to them about my characters.

But in the meantime, I used to run a RL writing group where the comments we made were feedback about the style/content/characterisation of the stories rather than just 'great story'. I was taught if you liked something, tell them why you liked it - that way they know what's working. I try to do the same thing with my comments on everything - sims, objects, patterns, lots, stories, clothing, hair, real life.

So sometimes it's just easier to lurk.

And hear endeth my rambling for the thread!

[Stacy]

Sept 24, 2010 23:04:16 GMT -5 @celebkiriedhel said:

I am primarily a reader. And as a reader it takes a lot for me to comment on anything. I even lurk at N99 and my own forum for Maxis' sake!

I think that's why I posted my stories at my website initially - because I didn't care about the comments, I just wanted to be able to read the stories online. I'm a big re-reader too. Don't ask me how many times I've re-read Lord of the Rings, Pilgrim's Progress or Shakespeare. I've lost count.

But I understand that people like to comment, and like to read comments. And after reading some of the comments on Lakeside Heights, and so on I wouldn't mind reading some of those comments for myself as well. Also I used to post links to my stories in my own forum and the regulars would comment on them. It was fun to be able to talk to them about my characters.

But in the meantime, I used to run a RL writing group where the comments we made were feedback about the style/content/characterisation of the stories rather than just 'great story'. I was taught if you liked something, tell them why you liked it - that way they know what's working. I try to do the same thing with my comments on everything - sims, objects, patterns, lots, stories, clothing, hair, real life.

So sometimes it's just easier to lurk.

And hear endeth my rambling for the thread!

Oh yeah, I agree with the being specific. But I also know that's kind of a touchy thing around the Sims communities - people get defensive about how it's just for fun, it's not meant to be taken seriously, all that kind of thing.

So while I would very much like specific comments, I know that in this culture sometimes I'm going to get "great chapter" and I'm cool with it - may not be the type of comment I'd spend an hour or more replying to and that would give me new insights into the story, but I'm still glad to know someone is reading it and liked it.

Of course, I love the more specific comments.

[persephonetree]

I feel like a huge hypocrite a lot of times because I like getting comments. Who doesn't? But I hate writing comments myself. I always feel like I'm being too general/insincere or that my comment sounds dumb, lol. That's a reason I like using Wordpress, even though all the readers don't comment, I still know they're reading. I'm a huge lurker, there are tons of sites, stories, etc that I read but never comment on, so to expect that of someone else wouldn't be very fair on my part, you know?

[pinkfiend1]

I tend to lurk until I've caught up with people's stories because I don't like commenting on older posts. But when I catch up I tend to post soemthing on every entry, although I dod sometimes feel like I'm all doing is spamming sort of if I can't think of anything more imaginative to say other than I like it.
But then I also don't like commenting if the person has tons of comments already. It feels wrong somehow.
But I don't expect people to comment it's nice if they do because I'm all to prone to getting bored and giving up.

[katherine]

I agree, I don't like commenting as much when there's tons of others. I still do, I just don't like it as much The reason why that might be is because there's already so many that you feel like your comment might just be skimmed over instead of actually getting read and responded to.

[dbloveshermac]

Sept 27, 2010 19:18:14 GMT -5 katherine said:

The reason why that might be is because there's already so many that you feel like your comment might just be skimmed over instead of actually getting read and responded to.

So should a commenter expect a response? Is that a "right?" Should bloggers always respond to every comment? I try to, but I'm curious about what everybody else thinks.

[drew]

Oct 5, 2010 12:12:53 GMT -5 dbloveshermac said:

Sept 27, 2010 19:18:14 GMT -5 katherine said:

The reason why that might be is because there's already so many that you feel like your comment might just be skimmed over instead of actually getting read and responded to.

So should a commenter expect a response? Is that a "right?" Should bloggers always respond to every comment? I try to, but I'm curious about what everybody else thinks.

I respond, whether someone leaves one sentence or 4 paragraphs. I just figured it is the polite thing to do.
And if it is someone who has never left a comment before, and they have a blog, I try and visit and reciprocate if I can. Doesn't matter to me if the person has no comments on their story or 50.
People do come back to see if you have responded to their comment, so I think it is important to acknowledge it, like I said, polite.

[laura]

Stacy, oooh, stats counters are one of my neurotic things, lol! Without them, I wouldn't even know I had lurkers at all. And I'd probably be a little more sane I don't think I'd like the "like" button either. In fact, that probably discourages people from leaving a comment, and I like comments!

Kiri, I come from a workshop feedback kind of background too, so I adore getting the meatier comments! But I do also understand that not everybody has been in that kind of environment before, so if they just want to say "great story" I'm okay with that too, lol!

Persephone, I think that's natural - it takes a lot of time and energy to think up a thoughtful response to something. I probably don't manage to keep up with as many stories as other people do just because when I do comment, I want it to be a meaningful one (and then I sit there and proofread my response before I post it, lol!)

Pink and Katherine, me too, on if the person already has a LOT of comments. But if I get the feeling that the author actually does read them all, or even leaves a group response back, I'll still leave one. But it does kind of suck to think up a thoughtful comment if the author isn't even going to notice it.

DB, I personally feel like it's right, and I do try to respond to all of mine. I *like* to respond to mine, so it isn't a chore or anything. Though I don't really get that many comments on any given post, so it's doable.

Even if I had more though, I think I'd still want to, or at least try. I think it's a good way of my showing appreciation for my readers' thoughtful responses, since I know how much time and energy it takes to leave a comment on something.

Drew, agreed!

[thelunarfox]

Oct 5, 2010 12:12:53 GMT -5 dbloveshermac said:

So should a commenter expect a response? Is that a "right?" Should bloggers always respond to every comment? I try to, but I'm curious about what everybody else thinks.

I wouldn't say it's a right, but I think it's polite. I look at blogs and threads the same way really. I feel that I'm "hosting" them, so if someone is bothering to show up at my party, then I would like to make them feel welcomed to encourage participation.

Of course I don't really get that many comments either, so it's completely do-able for me to respond to everyone even if it's only a short thank you.

[Stacy]

What do you guys define as a lot of comments?

I remember once I was talking to someone on Boolprop in PMs and she said that she read and enjoyed Valley but never commented because of all the other comments, and I was like "NOOOO!!!! Every comment is precious to me!!!!"

And yeah - I try to reply to all of them these days. I was too scared to read comments back in Sims 2 days, because I thought they'd all be telling me it sucked or something (yeah, the social anxiety started long long long before the secrets) and then I was a little shy at the very beginning of Valley. But yeah - now I respond to all comments unless they're of the straight up no reference to my own story "Read my story!" variety.

[celebkiriedhel]

I'm getting that it's good to comment. It's pulling me out of my lurkerish behaviour. I think you're right about replying to everyone on the blog. I've never really thought about it before.

[drew]

Personally, I am through trying to figure out why people leave comments, or don't. Lurk, or don't.
Actually I can't even explain my own reasons for leaving or not leaving comments. I have been doing a lot of lurking myself lately, and I don't know why. Depends on one's mood I suppose, some days, you really just have nothing to say.

But if that is the case with me, I do try and go back in a few days and give a comment another go.
Also, there are time restraints, I know personally, I cannot possibly read every sim story out there, it's not feasible. As much as I would like to. So I try and keep my reading list to a manageable length.
Do I give first priority to people who read and comment on mine? Yes, I admit I do. As I said above, it is the polite thing to do.
But I am always on the lookout for new stories, and there are a lot of great ones here to chose from!
and sb is right, comments are important to a lot of people, we wouldn't be posting sim stories on-line if we didn't want some form of feedback.
So I guess my ramble is, people are people, with their own foibles and hang-ups. If they don't feel comfortable leaving a comment, I can live with it.
Now.
Finally.

[raquelaroden]

I try to leave a comment on every blog I read. I feel bad, though, because I tend to work on catching up on blogs a lot. When I'm working through a blog's archives, I don't comment unless something really shocking or moving or crazy happened and I am just so stunned I have to say something. It's also a way to let people know that I'm making my way through their work. Once I'm through the archives, I'm commenting on every post. If the author isn't responding to my comments, then I stop commenting. And that's fine--but whenever I'm thinking of cutting out blogs because I've found more that I love, I'm more likely to stop reading if the author doesn't reply (especially if I only like the story and don't love it, or if it's hit a lull, etc.).

I respond to all comments except for those spammy, "Hey, I know I've never commented before, but I really love your blog--how about you put up a link to mine and give mine a look?" I just delete those. I figure they'll get the message. If you really loved my stories, I'd be able to tell by now. So other than those, I respond to all the comments. Like Laura, I really enjoy responding to them. I'm grateful to anyone who takes the time to slog through my work, and I just want to make sure they know that.

OH--and a trick I use so that I don't run out of things to say about a story--I don't read the other comments until after I make mine. It might make someone answer a question twice, etc...but it's worth it because it's not like I had nothing to say--I was just thinking the same thing as other readers (which can actually be very useful information to a writer).