do you write for yourself or for your readers?

[muzegoddess]

Great topic and I love the Vonnegut rule too.

I'd have to say that I write for myself and my vision for the story first. When the ideas first start flowing and dialouge pops into my head I'm not connected to any other thought than getting that out. I begin to think about my audience (very small, right now) during the rewrites. I'll think about how this person might get a kick out of one line or how someone else might gasp at the situation that's unfolding. It's more of a "I can't wait until they see this" or "I wonder what they'll say when they read that" kind of a thing. I don't think I've ever changed what I was writing for the sake of my audience and if I have it has been unconsciously (but certainly worth exploring).

Have I thought about changing elements of my story for the sake of reader reaction? Yes. I've never been able to act on that though; just never feels right in the end. I don't want my writing to feel forced. I have censored myself a bit with regards to the artwork that goes with some of the things I've written. Some of those poseboxes are graphic and a good idea in game can quickly become something totally different when you're going to show it to the world.

For me readers serve as a source of inspiration and motivation for me to continue with my story vision rather than just a group of people to write at. I like to think of it as a give and take relationship.

[dinuriel]

Sorry for being late to the party.

Anyway, I think I feel the same way as most people here. Having readers is great, but I'm not about to change or censor my writing to cater to someone else's whims. All I know is that if I was somehow unable to write--even if everything I wrote was total crap and no one could read more than a dozen words without having to puke--I would be in some corner somewhere, rocking back and forth in fetal position while muttering gibberish, so even if I don't write purely for myself, I do write primarily for myself.

So in summation... I write what I want to write and post on the off-chance that what I want to write is what someone else wants to read? That and I do need some sort of reader feedback if I ever hope to improve.

[Stacy]

Spent lunch going back and rereading those old Boolprop posts.

Goodness - I have learned nothing in the last three years and I am still dealing with all those issues and I am still talking about them in the same ways. Seriously - even using the same sentences and phrases. LOL.

I do think that what I saw - it wasn't conscious. And I think the people at the top of the social heap may have found themselves there through no fault of their own and couldn't help the way other people reacted to that.

I don't know, though - there is a difference. It's not like I don't know my stories are popular too, but - people treat me differently. I don't seem to be a target for social climbers to latch on to.

Of course - some people would say I'm more "infamous" than "famous", lol.

I did find some threads where I apparently read their posts and responded to them, and it seems to have all been much more civil than I remembered it. In one post I even thanked them for having patience with me.

So - if any of you guys are out there reading this, I did not remember things clearly. But I do still think there was a ton of social stuff going on there and that the ratings were not objective and that people were unfair to newer writers. Just it wasn't as bad as I remembered it being.

And omg - one of the threads is similar to this one and I had the exact same attitude with my old legacy. Here's the quote.

"I only get neurotic after uploading. When I'm playing the game and taking the pictures and writing the captions, that's all I'm thinking about. It's easy and it's fun and it's full of joy. I don't write for ratings. I write because I enjoy it. The happiest time of my life was when I was writing the first few chapters of the old legacy and before the downrating started.

But once I hit that upload button - then I go crazy."

See? I don't think about readers or comments or anything at all while I'm writing. I write for the story, for the characters, for the words and the rhythm and the art.

It's when I then put that out into the world that the whole readers and stats page and ratings thing comes into play.

[sb]

Well I HAVE changed things based on reader reaction. The biggest change was probably because the readers assumed something happened that I did not want to happen (chickened out). They were right. I went back and changed it retroactively and I'm glad I did.

I don't mind if readers make requests about specific characters. If it isn't clear why someone behaves a certain way, or why someone else likes him or her, then I probably need to take a second look at the situation. Gayl and I usually work out that kind of thing in advance, but we aren't perfect. I know there are holes in the plot and in the relationships.

Stacy, I think it's always about social standing. It's not necessarily mean, but women are sort of built that way. It can take a real effort to see it and go against it.

[laura]

I think we're all really on the same page here, if we strip away all the confusions, lol!

Kiri, I think that's a great example of when you really need to write for yourself. And how, if you'd been writing "nicer things", you wouldn't be writing for yourself anymore, but for what your readers want. They used to tell us in writing classes, "Write the story only you could tell." And that sounds like what most of us are doing, and that's perfect!

The thing I think we keep getting stuck on is the difference, like you said, about writing *for* readers, and writing to be read by readers. There is a big difference, and I'm not quite sure how to put that into words, lol! We're writing as an offering to our readers, but the story is born for ourselves?

Beth, there's another good point, and something I think we all really agree on. Reader feedback is very useful, because no, none of us are perfect, and there are plenty of holes that we just can't see from our own point of view. That's still different than writing *for* the readers though, as in giving the readers the ending they want, or the pairing they want, or whatever whim that might be. Clarifying and filling holes, even if it does stem from reader feedback, is still writing for yourself, I think, because you agree with those changes, and they do fit into your vision. In fact, it's a very important step of the refining process for me.

[qui]

I am late but wanted to add my two cents.

I too write based on the vision I have for my stories and what I feel like writing. There have been times when I felt like canning the whole thing because it seemed as if no one could relate to my characters but I then realized that I care more about sharing what I see than what people want. It's nice to have tons of readers that jump for joy over your updates and that can identify with your characters but as we've all seen at one point or another, that doesn't always happen. It comes down to two things, Writing what you like and making people love it OR Writing what everyone wants and lose yourself in the process.

I agree with you Beth that sometimes you have to change things based on the readers reactions. Sometimes we can take things the wrong way and get the wrong idea which was not intended but calls for a change in the author's direction.

Question for everyone. Do you feel overlooked because you write what you want and not to please?

[sb]

Question for everyone. Do you feel overlooked because you write what you want and not to please?

No. If I'm overlooked, it's because my writing isn't strong enough to hold the reader's attention. And people get to like what they like. If I can't give it to them, that's ok. Fortunately, I don't have to earn my living doing this!

[qui]

I'm with you on that! I think If I were doing it for a living, I'd have a head full of grays from stress!

[laura]

Dec 2, 2010 13:00:34 GMT -5 @qui said:

Question for everyone. Do you feel overlooked because you write what you want and not to please?

Never. I love my little niche group of readers! I wouldn't trade them for anything, not even a thousand screaming fans, lol! My readers understand me (even if they sometimes throw tomatoes), and I get to be myself at the same time.

It's kind of like dating (everything in life is like dating, lol!): everybody thinks they want that superhot dude that all the girls are after, but really, what you want is that wonderful and underestimated man who will love you for what you truly are.

I know some people who work in copywriting, which is just about the epitome of writing what somebody else wants, and yes, they say it's soul-destroying.

[thelunarfox]

Dec 2, 2010 13:00:34 GMT -5 @qui said:

Question for everyone. Do you feel overlooked because you write what you want and not to please?

*thinks about it* I say no, but my experiment was a surprise success for me, so it's probably hard for me to answer this honestly.

I mean, Ruin was written long ago. All my characters were created ages ago and I had plenty of time to get used to them. So when I went to post, I was actually quite nervous. It was a story that was important to me, and I wasn't exactly sure how it'd go over. I'm rather used to being the weird girl, so I was pretty sure it would just stay weird and only be looked at by Carla and Laura, lol.

And I pretty much dropped my TS2 story. (Sorry TS2 sims. I'm thinking of planning a way back to you probably! ) Because Ruin was what I most wanted to do, and it's really the only thing I want to do at the moment.

So I imagine if no one else looked at it, I wouldn't feel overlooked- I'd just accept that it's not everyone's cup of tea.

[thelunarfox]

Dec 2, 2010 13:17:33 GMT -5 @laura said:

It's kind of like dating (everything in life is like dating, lol!): everybody thinks they want that superhot dude that all the girls are after, but really, what you want is that wonderful and underestimated man who will love you for what you truly are.

You and those dating analogies! But once again, it's a good one. Very true. Personally, I've never wanted the hot man, but always wanted that understated man who'd love me the way I am.

So then I guess I did answer honestly, lol.

[qui]

Dec 2, 2010 13:17:33 GMT -5 @laura said:

It's kind of like dating (everything in life is like dating, lol!): everybody thinks they want that superhot dude that all the girls are after, but really, what you want is that wonderful and underestimated man who will love you for what you truly are.

You're right! It's is very much like dating. You see things from the outside and desire it because it looks so wonderful but once you get into it, see it from the inside you catch all the drawbacks you couldn't see before.

[laura]

Dec 2, 2010 13:22:32 GMT -5 @thelunarfox said:

And I pretty much dropped my TS2 story. (Sorry TS2 sims. I'm thinking of planning a way back to you probably!)

Oh yay!!! Are you going to remake them in TS3? I miss Gabe and Alberta! And Ily! And Samantha and Water! And Amberle!!! And I can't remember her sexy vampire boyfriend's name, but I miss him too, lol!

ETA: Henry! Oh, *pixel swoon*!!!

[thelunarfox]

Dec 2, 2010 13:32:49 GMT -5 @laura said:

Oh yay!!! Are you going to remake them in TS3? I miss Gabe and Alberta! And Ily! And Samantha and Water! And Amberle!!! And I can't remember her sexy vampire boyfriend's name, but I miss him too, lol!

TS3-ify them? TS2 has its own charms. I just need to fire up the game and play. Mostly, I'm thinking of just playing properly because I don't play TS3. (I miss Amberle too, poor kid. I could use some more humorous fires in my gaming life.)

Still requires thought though. Which probably isn't a good sign.

[sb]

I feel compelled to add something else here. I actively dislike some popular writing, both in the sims community and anywhere else (present company excepted). If I had to write like that, I'd give up. I couldn't stand the writing or myself. There have been times when I've had to fake admiration (going back to Laura's dating analogy), but it's impossible to keep doing that for very long.

[laura]

Oh good! I like TS2 too! I just figured you were done with it by now.

[thelunarfox]

Dec 2, 2010 13:42:15 GMT -5 @sb said:

I feel compelled to add something else here. I actively dislike some popular writing, both in the sims community and anywhere else (present company excepted). If I had to write like that, I'd give up. I couldn't stand the writing or myself. There have been times when I've had to fake admiration (going back to Laura's dating analogy), but it's impossible to keep doing that for very long.

Yeah, I can't fake admiration. If I don't like it I won't say anything. Same goes in the opposite direction-- If I don't love it, I won't say that I do.



I don't feel done with TS2, but uh, yeah it has been a while. Ruin just saps a lot of energy! Even when I'm not doing anything but rolling around on the floor toying with ideas and begging for chocolate or burgers.

[qui]

I've also had a time or two where I had to fake it because it seemed like the right thing to do. Lately it's gotten so that I can't even fake it anymore. I doubt I was even any good at it.

[celebkiriedhel]

Personally - I prefer not to fake it, and won't. I want my comments to be genuine. I'd rather not comment at all than fake it.

That being said - I've been privileged to be reading some people's work when they've only just been starting, and the writing has been crap - but the story and the passion were there. In those cases, I've ignored the crap, and praised them for the things that work. Eventually, with practice they got to a point where the writing improved. and was no longer crap. They started actively looking for ways to fix their writing, and in one case - they're now a published author and the writing is REALLY good.

So I think it's hard to make a rule about things - it's more a case by case thing.

On the other hand - I just won't buy books that are badly written, and I stop buying that author if they go down that path.

Edit...

Oh - and no. I don't feel overlooked. I'm more comfortable with a small audience that I know, than a large audience that I don't.

[sfe]

Faking admiration? Well, as regards storytelling/reading, since what I do is only a hobby for me, I don't see a reason why I would have to. I'm not good at lying and I've never felt the need to. Besides, I'd be bored to death to read something that I think is not good enough, so I never reach until the bottom where the comments section is.

There are some occasions in my life (like my involvement in music) where I had to state my opinion, and my opinion was so bad about this something that I had to "diminish" my dislike just a little. I've never went from horrible to admiration though. And when I'm not obliged to state an opinion I just don't if I don't feel like I want to praise something which has actually touched me.

And I think it's not good for the target of the comment either. When you receive praise you don't deserve, you'll never know you're not good enough so as to try and improve.