do you write for yourself or for your readers?

[laura]

Do you write for yourself or for your readers? This is kind of a spin-off question from the confidence discussion. And further, maybe *should* you write for yourself or for your readers? (Though I imagine the answer to that question has more to do with the author's intentions for the story than any set "rule".)

I'm asking this because I noticed a lot of people in the other thread, and really just writers in general, will often say that they write for themselves - only for themselves. And if other people like it, then fine.

The thing is, I'm not sure that I do just write for myself. Partly I do, in the very early stages of it. I write to amuse and delight and enlighten myself, but then it's almost immediately turned into wanting to amuse and delight and enlighten my readers. I think if I knew that if I was writing a story I knew no one would ever read, I'm not sure I would write it. I think it would live in my head as that little glimmer of inspiration, and then I'd move on to the next thing. It's the sharing part that I love.

But at the same time, that doesn't mean I write to please my readers' whims either (and oh boy, do my readers have whims! lol!). I think I usually have faith in the story I want to tell, which might be the same thing as writing for myself? But I want to tell that story to other people.

There is this one Kurt Vonnegut rule I love:

7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.

I do believe you can't write for *everyone*. I think everyone has their own little niche of people who truly get and admire their work, while for other people, it's just not their thing. So when I write, I do think I'm writing for those people, my little niche. But I'm not sure I'm writing for myself.

So what's your answer? Because I don't know what mine is, lol! ;D

[thelunarfox]

That's one awesome rule, lol!

My answer: both!

Primarily, I write for myself. But that's writing that will never see the light of day. I do it for fun just cause, and it amuses and entertains me.

And then I hit on something I want to share, and so when I share, my focus changes. I can't please everyone, and I'm mostly sharing for myself in the sense that I want to, but I am still very conscious of my readers. I try to figure out a way to present the story. I'm not setting out to please everyone. Mostly, I try to imagine if I were reading, how would I read it? What would be the best way to present the story to me? And so I go with that. Sometimes I'm working on something, and someone specific will pop into my head, and so I might think about what they'd say or what their reaction would be.



Aw, man, I'm long winded today.

[sb]

My honest answer is no, of course I don't write just for myself.

I know I'd keep writing. I wrote in a diary and I wrote poems I tore up and threw away, but would I spent this much time and effort on what I do if I were the only one reading it?

No.

[sb]

Now that's something that really fascinates me. Illandrya, how do you identify a target audience? How do you know?

[drew]

Nov 30, 2010 14:02:16 GMT -5 @sb said:

Now that's something that really fascinates me. Illandrya, how do you identify a target audience? How do you know?

I am guessing here, but I think Illandrya may have been referring to the TSR audience, the whole PG-13, rules/guidelines thing one has to abide by when posting stories there, remember? LOL!

[drew]

"I'm asking this because I noticed a lot of people in the other thread, and really just writers in general, will often say that they write for themselves - only for themselves. And if other people like it, then fine."

That sounds like something I said, it may have been here, I certainly said it enough at my own blog. I realize it sounds selfish at first blush.
But I think I was referring to making changes in plots and characters because someone (a reader) has requested it. For example, I got an email some months back, asking me to 'soften' my villain a bit, give him a romantic interest.
I didn't.
Long story short, this person no longer reads and comments, LOL!
So I will continue to portray the characters in plots that interest me, not others.
Oh dear, that does sound selfish.

[laura]

Oooh, target audience is a good discussion as well. Illandrya, what you've done is perfect! Because then your target audience finds you. And because you were writing the stories you wanted to write already when they found you, then you're all set!

I've heard many stories of authors who got started writing things because they were popular, or because they knew they would sell, and then one day they finally decide they want to be true to themselves, and they have to disappoint an established audience to do it.

Beth, you find it just by being yourself and putting yourself out there. They will come to you. Then if you wanted, if you were going to go as far as marketing - you take a broad picture of the people who have found you. And if you find that most of them are [adult educated women], or whatever, then there's your target audience. Doesn't mean that other people wouldn't enjoy your work, but just that those are the people most likely to enjoy your work.

Lunar, you know, simple as it seems, I never thought of both as an appropriate answer, lol! Duh! Yes, and it's a good answer at that! Why do we have to choose sides at all? ;D

[laura]

Nov 30, 2010 14:31:23 GMT -5 @drew said:

"I'm asking this because I noticed a lot of people in the other thread, and really just writers in general, will often say that they write for themselves - only for themselves. And if other people like it, then fine."

That sounds like something I said, it may have been here, I certainly said it enough at my own blog. I realize it sounds selfish at first blush.
But I think I was referring to making changes in plots and characters because someone (a reader) has requested it. For example, I got an email some months back, asking me to 'soften' my villain a bit, give him a romantic interest.
I didn't.
Long story short, this person no longer reads and comments, LOL!
So I will continue to portray the characters in plots that interest me, not others.
Oh dear, that does sound selfish.

No, I totally get this. Though I don't think any of my readers have so clearly asked something of me (though it might be funny if they did!). But yes, my readers do have their whims, but I still remain true to my own vision of the story.

I had a minor flip out about this once. Wrote in my babble thread about it (here, if you wanted to read), about how all my readers wanted a story to go a certain way, but I saw the story going somewhere else. And Lunar had the perfect answer for me. She's so smart!

She said:

I'd prefer to read your vision than the one you've written for us. Especially because most people don't realize they want these interesting shades of gray until they're presented on a platter, lol.

So no, not selfish, I don't think. I think it's just staying true to your vision, because your reader might think they want something, but they also might not know exactly what you're offering yet.

But yes, if it's really true they don't like what you're actually offering, then there's plenty else for them to read, lol! Good riddance!

[drew]

Laura, I think that is it in a nutshell. Staying true to your vision.
Actually, I have been contacted a couple of times by people over the last couple of years asking me to do a specific plot/story or change a character. I never have.
And thanks for the link, Lunar is very succinct in summing something up! She is bang-on.

I can't picture myself having the stones to contact someone and tell them what they should do with their story or characters, but that's me! If someone asks for my advice, that's different.

[sb]

Laura, I didn't mean I was looking for a target audience. I was just interested in the concept of identifying one.

[heredoncove]

I'm going to have to use HC as my example because its my first creative endeavor in many years.

When I first started the blog it was mainly for me. I wasn't really involved in the Sims community beyond being a lurker and I knew I wouldn't have a giant readership, so it was all mine. It really was and continues to be something that I can exercise my skills as a writer and so I only had to satisfy myself. I had to be ok if not happy with what I was doing and the way I was portraying my characters.

It was only after I became more invovled in reader other blogs and later VSS that is became a blend of the two. A lot of the comments had questions and thoughts and I found myself trying to find ways that I could answer them and satisfy your curiousity. In a way it becomes very much a give and take relationship between author and reader so it becomes really hard to just write for yourself. You always have the idea od where you want to go with the story but you can't help but think of what your readers are asking of you.

I think in more traditional forms of writing that it's easier to write for yourself. You don't have that constant feed back beside a friend or if you're luck an editor, the amount of questions that pop up are limited so YOU have to be happy with what you're putting out there.

But at the same time, that doesn't mean I write to please my readers' whims either (and oh boy, do my readers have whims! lol!). I think I usually have faith in the story I want to tell, which might be the same thing as writing for myself? But I want to tell that story to other people.

I think this is important and goes back to the idea of having confidence in the story you're telling. I don't think I could or would change an essential part of my story simply because my readers hate it. I think once you hit that point you lose yourself as writer. Sometimes your readers can have a good point, especially when they're a group of writers but mostly you know where you're story is going and how it needs to get there.

So, that's my long winded way of saying I do both.

[raquelaroden]

I went quite a while without having many comments at all...posting my story to no one. I was just happy that I'd found a way to tell my story with illustrations. As a child, I'd happily write a story and then try to illustrate it in notebooks, doing work-ups of characters, etc.. I wasn't the greatest at sketching, though, so I was never really satisfied. When I started getting into this, it was so nice to finally be able to do what I'd wanted to all along that I didn't really mind the lack of comments and readers.

Once I started picking up readers, I discovered a lot of my joy from their comments, definitely, but what I liked best were the times when I truly surprised them. There have been a few times that readers have suggested things in the comments, and occasionally I do use their suggestions, but it's always for a small piece or a side piece that won't affect the plot line. Sometimes the readers guess exactly where I'm going, and that's just because I'm not the best mystery writer, LOL...still haven't mastered how to manage my red herrings and how to drop clues in a good, measured, creative way.

I would say this--I write more often, on something that approaches a deadline for my readers. I'm excited that they want to read what I write and that they like what I'm doing, and that keeps me writing more often than I otherwise would. But if all of them hated me and hated what I did tomorrow, I'd hope that I could still write because I'm telling a story that I want to read, myself. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm not giving my readers their due--I value them and their input and their speculations immensely! I think they help make me a better writer, and on a much faster learning curve than if I'd never had readers. But I didn't start writing for them, and I really, really hope that if they stopped commenting that I could still write.

[Stacy]

I'm sleep deprived as hell, cold, and upset - so you get even more raw and uncut Stacy than usual, with extra grumpy.

This is why I'm persona non grata in some Sims circles. Years ago, on Boolprop, readers and star ratings and "famous" versus unknown writers would come up on occasion.

And the famous popular writers would bleat their little "You should write for yourself" baa baas in their sheepy little way, and I'd call them on it. I'd tell them that if they really wrote only for themselves and didn't care about readers, they wouldn't publish it online and advertise it. It's human and natural to want readers and recognition and it's wrong to condescend to new writers and act all holier than thou about it. It's easy to say you don't care about readers with a halo around your head and light binging off your teeth when your chapters hit 4.9 almost as soon as you upload them and you have hordes of fangirls who kiss your ass in your thread with a ton of replies.

Err - haha, three years later that still burns me up. Freaking hate condescending hypocrites. And they hate me, so it works out.

As for me - I just write. And I really really like readers, although in the last few months I'm not nearly as obsessive about my stats page as I used to be.

I like knowing that other people like what I write and are entertained by it, but I don't think about them when I write it. When I'm writing I'm thinking about words and sentences and images. And then I hit publish and refresh my stats page until I see people looking at it and I eagerly wait for the comments, like a dog waiting for food. All wagging my tail and slobbering and shit.

So yeah - I guess both.

[sfe]

Drew, I don't think that is selfish either.

I write my plots based on what I want to happen and on how I feel about a specific character and I wouldn't change anything in order to please my audience. So, I could say that I craft the plots just to please myself.

On the other hand, the way in which I present the story is determined to some extent by my audience. For instance, I might have to exclude some scenes that are in my head that people may find disturbing (I've got a dirty mind, lol), or make something last longer just to keep them in suspense. So, I could say that I write for my readers.

Yeah, that totally makes sense ;D So do I, or do I not write for myself? I'd say it's both.

[raquelaroden]

I think hoping that someone will read what you write and like it is different from writing for people. I'd view the fact that people like what I write as a very happy side effect. And I don't think the fact that I posted my story online means that I wanted to write for people. It meant that I wanted reactions to my writing, but not that I was searching for someone to write for.

Yes, I'm probably being stubborn on this. Truly, I probably do both, but I think I lean far more on the "I write for myself" side of the continuum. There's some part of me that needs to believe that I'd still find this rewarding even if no one ever read it. That doesn't conflict with admitting that it is SO awesome and rewarding that people do actually read my stuff, and that I found an amazing group of friends through my experiment with putting my stuff out there so that others could read it.

[drew]

Nov 30, 2010 15:50:21 GMT -5 Stacy said:

I'm sleep deprived as hell, cold, and upset - so you get even more raw and uncut Stacy than usual, with extra grumpy.

This is why I'm persona non grata in some Sims circles. Years ago, on Boolprop, readers and star ratings and "famous" versus unknown writers would come up on occasion.

And the famous popular writers would bleat their little "You should write for yourself" baa baas in their sheepy little way, and I'd call them on it. I'd tell them that if they really wrote only for themselves and didn't care about readers, they wouldn't publish it online and advertise it. It's human and natural to want readers and recognition and it's wrong to condescend to new writers and act all holier than thou about it. It's easy to say you don't care about readers with a halo around your head and light binging off your teeth when your chapters hit 4.9 almost as soon as you upload them and you have hordes of fangirls who kiss your ass in your thread with a ton of replies.

Err - haha, three years later that still burns me up. Freaking hate condescending hypocrites. And they hate me, so it works out.

As for me - I just write. And I really really like readers, although in the last few months I'm not nearly as obsessive about my stats page as I used to be.

I like knowing that other people like what I write and are entertained by it, but I don't think about them when I write it. When I'm writing I'm thinking about words and sentences and images. And then I hit publish and refresh my stats page until I see people looking at it and I eagerly wait for the comments, like a dog waiting for food. All wagging my tail and slobbering and shit.

So yeah - I guess both.

Wow. So, I guess because I sort of write for myself, I am a condescending sheepy baa baa hypocrite? Ouch. ;D
So be it. I am off to polish my halo.

As for my vision, I just have a vision of where the plot/story is going. And I try to stick to that. Without getting too distracted by reader suggestions, though I do listen to them and have used one or two in the past.
That's the only vision I have. Nothing deep or probing.

[mdpthatsme]

My answer is both too.

I continue the Sim Stories for readers/viewers, but I write in prose for myself.

[sb]

Drew, no you're not. Sheep or hypocrite.

I really don't think there's anything wrong with sticking to what you want to write or altering it if you find something in your readers' comments that is meaningful, something that strikes you as a place to go, a hole you want to fill.

[raquelaroden]

SB: That's a perfect way to describe the alterations I make based on suggestions by readers--holes I want to fill, or a place to go that I really didn't think of going before. They're usually these details that I didn't think about because I'm all, "Aaaah! Am I staying on my plot? Did I do the stuff I needed to do to keep the main story going?!" Like a horse with blinders, you know? Readers suggest these lovely little side projects and forays into the characters that I take as exercises in revealing more about them, and it's really a lot of fun.

[thelunarfox]

Nov 30, 2010 16:10:38 GMT -5 @drew said:

Wow. So, I guess because I sort of write for myself, I am a condescending sheepy baa baa hypocrite? Ouch. ;D
So be it. I am off to polish my halo.

No, I don't think she's talking about someone like you at all. She's meaning those people who had all the people in the world reading their stories and then would claim they write for themselves. If a new writer would complain about not having readers, those popular people would then say "Write for yourself." It does seem hypocritical of a person who has lots and lots of support to tell someone else who has probably no support that they need to continue writing without the support.

I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to make a judgment call on anyone who is "popular" or has a lot of readers, just saying Stacy has a point.


Also, wow, someone had the balls to tell you what they wanted to see? That's horrible to me. I wouldn't respond to that with much grace I think.